Radio Interview, 2SM

SUBJECTS: Remembrance Day; AI; Defence Estate Audit

CHRIS SMITH, HOST: Richard Marles, thank you very much for your time.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: It's a pleasure.

SMITH: I want to turn your attention firstly on this Remembrance Day to the damage done to these Queensland war memorials. Three in three different towns. The details are sickening. Why is this happening? Is it because we're not instilling in our kids at school the importance of sacrifice in wars? Why is this happening?

MARLES: Well I can't answer why these specific ones have happened, but it's obviously appalling and I find it very difficult to fathom how any person, even any young person, would find there is any merit in damaging what is an acknowledgement of the 100,000 Australians, more than 100,000 Australians, who have given their lives to defend our way of life now. I mean, one thing I would say is that, in a hopeful sense, you know, I think we have seen over the last two decades, Anzac Day emerge, in a very organic way, as a day where Australians in large number, including young Australians, come out to give thanks and to remember those who have lost their lives. And certainly going around a lot of schools in my electorate, but around Australia, those stories are told in the lead up to Anzac Day and the lead up to Remembrance Day. But, you know, this is a day to acknowledge the 103,000 Australians who have lost their lives. Those war memorials do that. They are sacred places in our country and that anyone would seek to damage them is just outrageous.

SMITH: It's like sort of carving up the headstones in a cemetery. It's inexplicable.

MARLES: It is terrible. And I think that is the word – it's inexplicable. And, you know, I think Australians are appalled when they see that. I mean, the sense of outrage that has occurred in relation to these instances does at least give me hope that, you know, most Australians see these as absolutely sacred sites and so important. And actually, you know, in terms of World War I memorials particularly, it kind of speaks to what must have been an extraordinary trauma around the country, with literally one in ten fighting age men losing their lives during those three and a half years, really, that Australia was engaged in in the First World War. And you can't go to a town with more than 200 people in Australia today without finding in it a memorial to the First World War. And they actually, more than a century on, are really important for our heritage, for our sense of remembrance, and our sense of understanding the importance of the work that those who serve in our Defence Force today do in terms of protecting our way of life.

SMITH: Very true. Now, the Government has announced mandatory safety and security standards for the most advanced AI companies. What has changed and why does Australia need to step in?

MARLES: Well firstly, I mean, this is obviously a very new area and, you know, we have taken a role in terms of global leadership in respect of online safety, and now in terms of what we announced yesterday in respect of AI standards. What we're saying is that the companies who are developing AI need to be making sure that they are investing more technology in the safeguards around the AI capability than the capability itself. That's really important, that they're constantly doing risk assessments of their AI models, that they're subjecting those models to independent assessment to organisations around the world, which in the case of Australia is the AI Safety Institute, and that they engage in mandatory reporting when there is an incident. Now, these are, you know, these are sensible measures to have in place. We work in fact, very closely with the frontier companies. We have taken the attitude that in order for us to have agency, to shape this technology, to protect Australians, but more than that, to provide the opportunities that this incredible technology has for Australians, that we need to engage and we need to lead and we're doing both of those.

SMITH: I guess from a defence perspective too, you've got to make sure that AI is not preying on our national security.

MARLES: Well, AI is going to be completely central to– it really already is central to the way in which defence forces operate in all the ways you've just said then. I mean, AI can be used by malicious actors to seek to hack into our systems and we have very good cyber security in place to defend that. But on the other side, AI is a very important tool now for us to use in terms of better enabling every platform we have. And if you cast forward five years from now, it really won't matter what platform we're operating, be it a submarine, or an F‑35 fighter plane, or even a soldier wearing an AI enabled battle management system getting cover from an AI enabled drone, AI is going to be completely central to maximising our Defence Force capabilities. And so, again, from our perspective, it is really important that we have our own sovereign access to this technology. That can only happen if we are engaging with AI companies and seeking to– you know, we're interested in those companies operating in Australia, but doing so in a manner which is safe. Which is why, you know, that dual approach of seeking to both engage heavily but also lead and not being afraid to lead is really where the government is at on this.

SMITH: It's a difficult balancing act. I don't envy your job there because it's a difficult one. One quick one, the Barracks issue. You think you've found the balance now, because you were pretty keen to sell everything off?

MARLES: Well, I mean, look, I think we have found the balance is the answer to your question. And, you know, we have been listening to the community and I think public ownership will be a good outcome here. I mean, these sites were always protected by law in terms of their heritage value, but this will provide an additional layer to ensuring they're protected. I mean, from my point as the Defence Minister, what matters here is that given that we're not utilising these sites properly, that we are out of those sites and not spending literally hundreds of millions of dollars maintaining them as Defence sites. So, Defence will vacate these sites and actually that's really important in terms of making sure that we are using every precious dollar that we have to maximise our capability. But at the same time, this is going to be a much better heritage outcome. I mean, the thing about Victoria Barracks Sydney is most members of the Australian Army are not allowed to go there. Most members of the Australian Army have never been there. It is an incredible building or set of buildings, and this will now be opened up to Sydneysiders, to Australians and we will commission the War Memorial to tell the story of Victoria Barracks Sydney in a much bigger and better way to a much wider audience, which is a much better heritage outcome.

SMITH: Minister, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it.

MARLES: Pleasure.

ENDS