Television Interview, ABC Afternoon Briefing

SUBJECTS: Iranian women’s football team; humanitarian assistance; Nationals Leadership; conflict in the Middle East; 

PATRICIA KARVELAS [HOST]: I want to bring in my political panel for today. Maria Kovacic is a Liberal Senator for NSW. Peter Khalil is the Assistant Defence Minister. Welcome to both of you.

PETER KHALIL [ASSISTANT MINISTER]: Hi, PK.

MARIA KOVACIC [LIBERAL SENATOR]: Hello.

KARVELAS: Let's start on this story around the Iranian women's soccer team. How concerned are you about this development around the woman who has changed her mind, Maria?

KOVACIC: I think the comments of the Minister there are accurate. You know, it is Australia, we are very fortunate to be free, and people can make those choices. And I think the decisions that these brave young women had to make, whether they chose to stay or to leave, were incredibly courageous, because if they choose to stay, there are repercussions for their families overseas. If they choose to leave, there are also consequences and repercussions. I think it sort of highlights how challenging the environment is there and how difficult it is in particular for women. And the fact that the regime that they have had to live through and that, you know, hopefully will change has made significant impacts on their lives and on the safety of not just themselves, but their loved ones. And we can only hope that they continue to be safe once they arrive home. But that is all we can do is hope.

KARVELAS: Peter Khalil, the Government has offered asylum to these women, but there are many other women who would like asylum in Australia. Is there a case for actually increasing our humanitarian assistance to try and assist women escaping Iran? Beyond these women who got, you know, obviously were able to benefit from being here.

KHALIL: I'm glad you asked that question, Patricia, because obviously these women, these soccer players, are very brave, very courageous. The complexity of their decision, you know, if they stay, that puts their family at risk of imprisonment, torture and worse execution if they go back, same thing that they face as well as their families. But in some senses, these women, because they were actually in Australia playing the tournament, they had the opportunity to take that choice. There are tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of women who have protested against the Islamic regime over many, many years since Mahsa Amini was killed for wearing the veil incorrectly. Schoolgirls, brave, courageous, standing up to the regime and have been brutally repressed. They killed 36,000 of their own citizens in a couple of days. That's, that's one estimate. It could be more than that. And this has been a consistent thing over decades. In 1988, they killed tens of thousands of civilians who, who protested as well. This has been a consistent act of repression by this government. So, I have always argued for humanitarian visas for the Iranian diaspora community because of the struggle that they have faced and yes. There is an argument around the quotas that we decide on each year about circumstances in other countries, whether we take more from a particular country or a war zone because of the need. And that's something the Immigration Minister goes through with the UNHCR on a yearly basis.

KARVELAS: Ok, but is there a case to go through that and see that there is obviously a reason for many people to want to escape this brutal regime?

KHALIL: Well, I just said there is a case. There's a case to be made for people from Iran, from people from Myanmar.

KARVELAS: But is that a case that you support? I know it's their case, but do you think should be higher?

KHALIL: Sorry if you didn't hear what I just said earlier in my answer. I have supported that for many, many years, given the struggle of courage and bravery that the Iranian people have demonstrated to the entire world in standing up to this regime for decades, by the way, not just in the last couple of months, for decades, in the face of brutal repression that has included imprisonment, torture, rape, execution and killing of their own civilians. So, there is a case to be made around the quotas.

KARVELAS: Right. Ok, so you think you're saying. Sorry, I'm just trying to get what you're actually, you're saying it should be higher. You think there is a case for humanitarian, the number of people we take for humanitarian reasons from Iran to increase.

KHALIL: The way it works is the decision is made with, in consultation with the UNHCR about what's happening around the world when there are certain conflicts that arise and where people, there's a humanitarian need. I think we increased our Afghan quota, for example, during that period, or we increased people from Myanmar. This is a conversation the immigration ministers have with the UNHCR when they're working out Australia's quota of humanitarian visas for the year. And we're very generous in providing over 20,000 humanitarian visas each year. So, that's something that will be worked through, I think. I'm not sure when the next meeting is, but it will be worked through.

KARVELAS: And Maria, what's your view on that?

KOVACIC: I think the reality is that we need to have a very balanced approach to all of our immigration. And, you know, we support the humanitarian visas that were issued to these young women. I think that is an important part of who we are as a country, that we don't turn people who are here away when they're seeking asylum in circumstances like this one. We have some other issues in our country in relation to the sustainability of immigration. So, we need to deal with that, particularly as it relates to our infrastructure. So, we have to have a balanced approach.

KARVELAS: Ok. Just on immigration generally and with to you, Maria. I spoke to Matt Canavan. He's the new Nationals Leader. I know you haven't missed that, anyone. He actually said he believes in assimilation. Now that is a different kind of form of language to multiculturalism. What's your view on that?

KOVACIC: Well, as you know, I'm a first generation Australian and I'm a product of multicultural Australia. My parents came here in the 1960s and what I think is really important and we talk about this a lot as, as we go out into the community and get different senses of what people are thinking, that the people that come here should have values that are aligned with our own, that have the best interests of Australia at heart and want to be part of Australia and obviously not to import differences and hatreds here. And I think for me that's an important element of it because that's how we build a strong Australia. And that doesn't mean disrespecting your culture, it doesn't mean letting go of who you are and perhaps those multicultural values as well. But it's actually saying when you come to Australia, when you make a home here, you're actually coming here to become a part of Australia, not to live separately from our own values.

KARVELAS: Ok. And on the election, I'll just stay with you, Maria, of Matt Canavan. You know, you're a well-known moderate for our audience who maybe don't know you supported Sussan Ley. She's now of course, leaving the Parliament. But both the Liberal Party and now the Nationals are taking a step to what looks like the right, that some people will reject some of those labels. But in terms of ideas, is that how you see what's happening here?

KOVACIC: I noted something that you said earlier as I was waiting to come on around having robust debate. And that's something that's very normal in the coalition party room and the Liberal Party room for that matter. We actually don't exist in an echo chamber. We are actually free to have a contest of ideas. And I think that is really good for Australia. We might not all always agree on the minutiae and the mechanics of different things, but we do agree on what is the best pathway forward for our country. And we have agreement in terms of what a future Australia looks like. And I don't run away from a debate and neither do my colleagues. And I think that's a really good thing. That's something for us to be proud of.

KARVELAS: Okay. But do you think moderate ideas will still gain traction in the coalition? It seems to be taking a very different approach now.

KOVACIC: I think for Australians to look to us as a party of government or someone that they could vote for as a party of government, we need to be able to represent all the different views across our community. And it's the responsibility of each party person in that party room, including myself, to do that.

KARVELAS: Peter Khalil, I'm going to you as the Assistant Defence Minister. We have now committed, of course, to this deployment in the Middle East, as have other nations in defensive, not offensive actions. But there are many people who are concerned that we are participating in a war that actually helps the US and Israel be able to prolong the war. In fact, many people in your own electorate believe that, and you know that that's a very strong view. How can you justify this effort given many of those people, including of course, The Greens, who are big competitors to you, see that as enabling the US war?

KHALIL: Well, you mentioned that particular minor party, The Greens party. Their logic or illogic position on this is really interesting because what they're basically saying is that when Australia takes a decision, and I think it is the right decision to provide some capability to help support an ally and a friend in the UAE, protect its civilians, including 24,000 Australian citizens who live there as well, by the way, protect them from a barrage of missiles that are hitting civilian sites, residential areas, hotels and so on, and trying to kill civilians. That is actually defending against the killing of civilians and protecting civilians is somehow wrong. That is, I can't even begin to understand the logic of that. It is a purely defensive act. We are supporting a friend. This argument that somehow that it's helping prolong the war, the causality there is not proven at all. I mean, the conflict itself is a fluid dynamic conflict at the moment. We don't know when it will end. We don't know what the next day is going to case. But what we do know is that there are missiles being fired at the UAE, there are missiles being fired at civilians, and we are taking an action, a defensive action, to help support and protect people from being killed by missiles. And I think that is justifiable and the right thing to do in our national interest and with our collective effort, if you like, to try and protect people from the worst effects of these missiles.

KARVELAS: All right, we're out of time. Thanks to both of you.

KHALIL: Thank you.

KOVACIC: Thanks.

ENDS