Radio Interview, ABC Melbourne

SUBJECTS: Bondi Terror Attack; Gun Reform

WALEED ALY [HOST]: So already the two main issues to start emerging, gun control in Australia and the social phenomenon and then the Government's response to that phenomenon of antisemitism is of course in the wake of the Bondi terrorist attack. Peter Khalil is with me now, he’s Assistant Defence Minister, also Labor MP for the northern suburbs seat of Wills. Peter, thank you so much for joining us today.

PETER KHALIL [ASSISTANT MINISTER]: Good morning, Waleed. 

ALY: You'll be familiar, of course. Let's start with the antisemitism side of this question you'll be familiar with the criticisms that are coming your way, your own Antisemitism Envoy, Jillian Segal saying, "I just think no one took it sufficiently seriously", and of course then this; you also would have heard from the Opposition Leader, Sussan Ley. 

[Excerpt] 

SUSSAN LEY [OPPOSITION LEADER]: Antisemitism in Australia has been left to fester. We've seen a clear failure to keep Jewish Australians safe. We've seen a clear lack of leadership in keeping Jewish Australians safe. We have a government that sees antisemitism as a problem to be managed, not evil that needs to be eradicated. 

[End of Excerpt] 

ALY: Peter Khalil, is that fair? 

KHALIL: Well, I mean first and foremost, Waleed, before we talk about political responses on this, this was the deadliest attack on Jewish Australians, and also the deadliest terrorist attack on Australian soil ever, the largest massacre of innocent people since the Port Arthur massacre. And you know, the Prime Minister has rightfully said yesterday and the day before that an attack on Jewish Australians is an attack on all Australians, and I think what is meant by that is when we are faced with these type of terrorist attacks they are murdering innocent people, but they're also trying to kill an idea, which is our democracy, the idea that we can actually live together regardless of our different faith backgrounds, our different ethnic backgrounds, that multicultural, multifaith society that we have built in this country is an idea, it's part of our democracy, it's in our DNA of what Australia and being Australian is, and they're seeking to destroy that. So I think it's important to note too that when you have those terrorist types of attacks, it's not just about the murder of innocents, it's also the sensationalisation of it, the attack on the State, the legitimacy of the State, all of these things. It puts people in fear, in particular communities like the Jewish Australian people. I mean they are experiencing immense pain and grief. Now I know there's a lot of back and forward about the politics of this and so on. I would point out, I mean given that I represent such a diverse electorate, that idea has to remain alive. We are responsible as political leaders to protect it and to push back against this hatred and this evil. Ahmed al Ahmed, who was the brave man who attacked one of the attackers and brought him down in a tackle, it was a very good tackle, I'll tell you what, that tells you much about the idea that we have. He put himself, a Muslim Australian, on the line and he saved countless Jewish lives. 

ALY: And he's been widely hailed a hero and rightly so. But yes, the idea of protecting a multicultural society, and so on, I think a lot of people would be on the same page as that. The criticism is precisely that the Government hasn't done enough to do that, because in the case of hatred being directed at a particular part of the community, that is specifically in this case, the Jewish community, it didn't respond. It had an Antisemitism Envoy, it decided to commission a report that is since not responded to after months, it hasn't even given a peep of a response, it's been warned about the seriousness of the problem and it's downplayed it. That's really the charge. Is that a fair charge? 

KHALIL: That is a charge, and they are political talking points that we've heard obviously from… 

ALY: Is that all they are, because they're also coming from within the Jewish community. 

KHALIL: Let me answer the question. I think when it comes to this kind of narrative that Sussan Ley and others are trying to build that the Government hasn't done anything to address the rise of antisemitism, just be really clear about this, there have already been this Government and I can say to you that the Prime Minister cares deeply about this and we have been working assiduously on this, and when we saw after 7 October 2023 and the rise of antisemitism that occurred over the last couple of years, the Federal Government has taken a number of actions, many of which have actually go to elements of the Segal Report already, we've already enacted it. We've banned Nazi salutes and hate symbols through legislation, provided over $50 million for security for Jewish synagogues and schools and other Jewish sites across the country, we've legislated stronger hate speech laws and committed $100 million to counter violent extremism, set up a National Student Ombudsman at universities, which is not just about protecting students from discrimination, including keeping women safe, but also others from other forms of racial discrimination, many of these elements are in the Segal Report, which we are working through and the Government's responding to, they have already been enacted in many respects. 

ALY: The core of it though probably hasn't, right, which was an analysis that said there is a culture spreading across major institutions, university institutions, cultural institutions, even media institutions that is fostering an environment that makes something like this possible. Do you accept that central critique, and if so what's the response to it? 

KHALIL: Well, there's certainly been a rise of antisemitism, there's no doubt about that. I mean antisemitism, as you know, is a scourge that has existed for thousands of years throughout Western Europe and other parts of the world, and it's certainly increased in Australia. We've tried, as I mentioned, through some of the actions that we've taken to respond to this. But governments have responsibilities, community members and community leaders have responsibility, the media has a responsibility, we all have responsibility. So if we're going to apportion blame, the environment that we live in, the society that we shape, it's all our responsibility, and I've said this very clearly, where however small we see the discrimination, or an act of discrimination against a Jewish Australian or any Australian based on their faith, we need to call it out; that's a community responsibility as well. We are all responsible. We have it in ourselves to shape the society we live in. I represent one of the most diverse electorates in the country. We have people from all faith backgrounds, all political backgrounds, all types of ethnic backgrounds, okay? That idea of maintaining that unity I guess, Waleed, what I'm saying is the society that we want, a society of multicultural, multiethnic, multifaith society, is predicated on the idea that each of us, in whatever position we have believes in disagreeing, or having differences with others and not resorting to violence is if there's disagreement. 

ALY: Yeah, sure, totally. 

KHALIL: That is the key. And these people that killed innocents on the beach hate that. Their hatred leads…

ALY: Okay, yeah, you've made that point, I understand the point you're making. Do we need to tighten hate speech laws? This has now been something that has even been floated by Mark Dreyfus. 

KHALIL: Waleed, since I've been in Parliament, for, what, nine years now, we have consistently in Opposition and Government sought to strengthen hate speech laws, and the Coalition has rejected it time and time again. 

ALY: Sure, I understand your political observation there    

KHALIL: In fact they've sought to water them down. 

ALY: I'm just asking as a policy point, do they need to be tightened? 

KHALIL: Well, we'll certainly be looking at what needs to be tightened as far as Federal hate speech laws. I think it's important the State Governments also enforce the laws that they have as well, which there are different laws in different States in Australia. This all needs to be done. We can all do better. I think everyone's so horrified by what happened and the impact it's had on our nation that of course we will be looking, and the Prime Minister has been responding to that, we’re all looking at all the different things that need to be done, whether it's strengthening hate speech laws at the Federal level, the national firearms policies that needs to be looked at, further support for the Jewish Australian community particularly around protection, but fundamentally, deeper down, as I was trying to say earlier, this goes to the kind of society that we shape. 

ALY: Yeah. 

KHALIL: And rejecting the idea that those who would seek to kill the idea of our democracy and the way it works…

ALY: Sorry, sorry to interrupt, but we're running short of time, and I do want to get the Government's side of it. So I'm speaking with Peter Khalil, by the way, if you've just joined us, Assistant Defence Minister, Labor MP for the northern suburbs seat of Wills. It's quarter to nine. The Government response has been to focus on gun laws. Are our gun laws in a serious state of disrepair, and if so, how did it get to that point? We've got guns awash across Sydney, a lot of them illegal. Have you gotten to this too late? 

KHALIL: Well, I don't think there's been any major reform of gun laws since the Port Arthur massacre, that was during Howard obviously during the Howard Government, and so the National Cabinet has agreed to work together on options to actually strengthen national gun laws. So, you know, having accelerating the standing up of a national firearms register, and also use of additional criminal intelligence to underpin firearms licensing. I think that's really, really important given what we've seen where, you know   the question around also limiting the number of guns you can have, the type of guns you can have, I think all of these are important reforms, so, you know, any one individual can't have six guns, for example, like this terrorist had. So I think also the renewals process is an important part of reform as well. All these things need to be done, and they need to be done by Governments at the Federal and State level. 

ALY: Yeah, but have we fallen asleep? I mean I've been hearing about the issue of guns in Sydney for years now, and I'm not even paying specific attention to it. So    

KHALIL: I didn't know you lived in Sydney, I thought you were in Melbourne, but    

ALY: No, I am, but even   

KHALIL: Oh, yeah, yeah. 

ALY: This is my point, I've been hearing this, this is not a new thing. 

KHALIL: Have we fallen asleep, Waleed? That's a really good question, actually. I mean in Australia we're so blessed, that over many decades we just take for granted how peaceful our society is, how things work, but there are those, as I've said, who wish to kill that, kill that idea, and so that complacency, wherever it may have emerged because we were comfortable, we thought we're so lucky to be here, and so on, and we just sort of all took it for granted, there could be an argument made on that basis. And this is not a political point or argument against any particular side of politics, it's like, what can we do better as a society? We are faced with these challenges now, and I think we can't be complacent anymore. I mean I've been saying this for years about these threats, the concern that I have is the idea that people think that they can use violence as a legitimate political act has spread across those who have different ideological beliefs or world views, or religious beliefs, that's unacceptable; that is antithetical to what kind of country we want to live in. I assume the vast majority of Australians would agree with that. 

ALY: I hear what you say on that. Peter Khalil, thank you so much for your time this morning. Really appreciate it.  

KHALIL: Thanks, Waleed. 

ALY: That's Peter Khalil, Assistant Defence Minister and Labor MP for the northern suburbs seat of Wills.