Television Interview - ABC Afternoon Briefing

SUBJECTS: Middle East Conflict

PATRICIA KARVELAS [HOST]: Well, it's the second week of Parliament, of the 48th Parliament. Of course, last week there was a lot of pomp and ceremony and first speeches. Today, those first speeches continue. I want to bring in Assistant Defence Minister, Peter Khalil to talk about some of the big issues of the day. Peter Khalil, welcome.

PETER KHALIL [ASSISTANT MINISTER]: Hi, Patricia.

KARVELAS: Israel's embassy in Australia has declared there is no starvation in Gaza. That's despite world leaders, including, of course, our own Prime Minister, saying it’s irrefutable there is, and that Israel is breaking international law. Should the Israeli ambassador be hauled into the Prime Minister's office?

KHALIL: Well Patricia, as you've heard from the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister, and many of our other Ministers and MPs, what is happening in Gaza with the malnutrition, the starvation, the drip feed of humanitarian aid and assistance and food relief is, as the Prime Minister has said, indefensible and unacceptable. That's why the international community has, I think 27 countries, including Australia, have made that very clear request for unimpeded, unfettered access to aid. I'm pleased at least to see that since that blockage occurred from March earlier this year, that has been lifted, at least temporarily, so that hundreds of trucks of food aid can come in, and there are drops of aid as well that the UAE and Saudi and other countries have been involved with. 

So, that at least is happening. But it is unacceptable and I think the international community has been working to take the actions necessary to get us to a point where there is unimpeded, unfettered access to humanitarian aid, and more importantly, a ceasefire, which we have voted for multiple times at the United Nations, and called for multiple times. We need to see an end to this conflict and an end to the human suffering.

KARVELAS: But you can say all that, and even now, as Israel has, as you say, started some of these airdrops, all of the experts on the ground say it won't be enough still to deal with the crisis. So, it's still not good enough, is it?

KHALIL: It has to happen. I mean, when I say the Israeli Government has permitted some of the Arab states to do some of the airdrops – the UAE, Saudi and others, I think Jordan as well, is involved, Egypt obviously is involved in many of the food trucks entering into Gaza – it is absolutely necessary to relieve the suffering that is unacceptable and indefensible. 

And that's why the international community is working so hard to actually put the pressure on to allow this unfettered access. And then beyond that, Patricia, we’ll continue to work with the international community. As I said, Australia has voted, and taken actions at the UN to vote multiple times for a ceasefire. The Prime Minister and his counterparts in likeminded nations like Canada and New Zealand and other countries have called for this consistently, and an adherence to international law. And my concern is obviously with the human suffering that we're seeing right now. You're right, there is a lot of goodwill amongst the international community to provide that aid. That has to happen, and it is happening right now and we have to do everything we can --

KARVELAS: But it's not happening as it should. That's what the experts on the ground say. They say it's still not happening as it should, even as Israel sends out what are two contradictory stories: one, that there's no starvation, and then some limited airdrops that the experts are saying won't actually deal with the humanitarian crisis we're seeing.

KHALIL: There is clearly starvation, there's clearly malnutrition that is occurring. I don't think you can argue against that, you can see that evidence that’s there --

KARVELAS: And yet they are, yet they are. So why are they?

KHALIL: It is happening. And the UN, the World Food Programme and also other NGOs need to be given access for that unimpeded humanitarian assistance to get into Gaza. They can't just switch it on straight away, but they are starting to build up that capacity. There are hundreds of trucks. My understanding – and I spoke to the Egyptian ambassador, the UAE ambassador – they're doing aid drops by air as well. There are trucks that are entering, or now being permitted to enter into Gaza, which is important. All of that has to happen and it is happening as quickly as possible.

KARVELAS: It's not quite happening as quickly as possible, though. That's what many of the people on the ground are saying. Just on this Palestinian statehood question, the Prime Minister says an imminent decision on this isn't about to happen. September, in my estimation, is not imminent. Could Australia support at the UN statehood in September?

KHALIL: Well, as you know, and you've probably heard from previous guests, the Labor Party platform has a policy that is to recognise Palestine. The question is at what point that occurs when the decision is made by the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister and the National Security Committee of Cabinet, as to when that can be done so that it can actually be a real substantive contribution to building a Palestinian state there. Obviously, the Foreign Minister has talked about a number of challenges, such as the fact Hamas should be not part of a future Palestinian state, that the hostages still need to be released, that we need to get to a ceasefire where there is a cessation of military operations, a release of hostages, and move towards that political and security transition. 

Now, how long that will take? The international community across the globe is working away at the plans on this and trying to push the parties towards that. I know the French President has a plan. Many of the international community are also working on elements of this in their own way. There's a lot of goodwill there to provide the --

KARVELAS: You mentioned the French President has a plan.

KHALIL: Yeah, I haven't seen the details of it to be fair. I’ve seen the reports.

KARVELAS: Well, I've seen the public comments. That's right.

KHALIL: I've seen the public comments, yeah.

KARVELAS: So, could we have a similar plan?

KHALIL: Well, Australia has been very clear in saying that we want to see a ceasefire. We want to see the end of military operations, the release of the hostages, and the reforms that are underway now with the Palestinian Authority, elements of that need to be put in place so that you can move towards recognition of a Palestinian state. The political and security transition has to happen after a ceasefire is in place so that you can build that up and provide the economic and political reconstruction that has to happen to create a Palestinian state. 

Patricia, many of us, and me personally as well, I've been supporter of a Palestinian self-determination and a Palestinian state, well before the 7th of October 2023. My grandfather, my father, my uncles fought in the Egyptian Army going back to 1948 for Palestinian rights. We all want to see a Palestinian state, a two state solution where the people of that region are living in peace side by side. And Australia can play a constructive role, in concert with the international community, to make that happen. And the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister will make the decisions around recognition, which is one part of that, at the time in which peace is most advantageous.

KARVELAS: Has Israel lost international support?

KHALIL: Well, clearly there's been a fair bit of criticism. Clearly criticism of Israel from the international community has been very clear cut. The recent statement talked about how unacceptable and indefensible the drip feeding of aid has been, particularly since March. The adherence to international law, the loss of civilian life, these are all things the international community has been quite clear about and putting pressure on Israel. 

And the Australian Government has taken actions. I know there's a narrative that says the Australian Government's words, no actions, but we have voted multiple times for a ceasefire, since December 2023 we've called for it. We've increased our humanitarian aid to over 100 million in support.

But also Patricia, and really importantly, you know, the statements that are made and the sanctions that Australia has placed, unprecedented sanctions on two senior cabinet ministers in Israel and other entities -

KARVELAS: I'm glad you mentioned that because that's my question. 

KHALIL: That’s your next question, is it?

KARVELAS: Yeah, well, should sanctions go beyond those two, and the sanctions on them were not in relation to Gaza.

KHALIL: Targeted sanctions. First of all, they work because they're not telegraphed, and they work because Australia works within the international community. We don't foreshadow them in advance. That's what makes them most effective. And I think it's also important to say that those actions, when taken, send a very clear message to the Netanyahu Government that the international community has been ignored and that is not to be tolerated. They are most effective when they are in concert with other international partners, and that's how Australia works through those issues and those actions that we take. We have taken actions, as you say, targeted sanctions against two ministers, as well as a number of other entities. These are important actions that Australia has taken with international partners.

KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us.

KHALIL: Thank you, Patricia.

ENDS