Radio Interview, ABC Sydney Drive

SUBJECTS: Defence Estate Audit

THOMAS ORITI [HOST]: Now, there's been a big reaction to the Federal Government's plan to sell 67 defence sites across Australia. We've been talking about that for most of the year. And in Sydney, attention is very much focused on Victoria Barracks in Paddington and also HMAS Penguin in Mosman, and for right reason, both prime real estate spots. Lancer Barracks in Parramatta is another one also on the for sale list. And I say that because there's a community information session happening in about 10 minutes time at the Parramatta Town Hall. And the Minister for Defence, Peter Khalil, will be there. He joins us on the line now. Hi, Peter.

PETER KHALIL [ASSISTANT MINISTER]: Hi, Tom. Thanks for having me.

ORITI: Thank you for joining us. Now, Lancer Barracks is mainland Australia's oldest military barracks. There's a lot of history behind it. Why is it on the for sale list?

KHALIL: Yeah, Tom, look, the decision around the divestment of around 67 sites has been decades in the making. There's been multiple defence reviews, basically making the argument that the defence estate, which is the largest landholding in Australia, it's 3.8 million hectares, has to be fit for purpose for the modern evolving force, the ADF, operational fit for purpose for operations. And a number of sites have been identified as beautiful sites, but not operationally fit for purpose. They're historically important, they're historic relics in some respects, but not fit for purpose for a modern ADF. And given the strategic environment that we're in, it is, you know, many governments have not made the decision, the hard decision, to actually take the tough steps to actually divest sites that are no longer operationally fit for purpose. So, that's the kind of strategic reasoning behind it. There was an audit done over a number of years. There was another entire 12 months where I spent as Assistant Minister going across all of that audit, all of the recommendations and making decisions around what's operational and what's not. Lancer is a very significantly historic barracks. And part of the, there's two priorities for me, Tom. One, make sure that the defence bases are fit for purpose for a modern ADF to meet the strategic challenges that we're facing as a nation. And two, ensure that the bases that have historic value are protected. The heritage is protected under Commonwealth laws and it's made open and accessible to the Australian people to enjoy what are significant historic history and our nation's military history.

ORITI: Well, that's not going to happen if it's sold off, though, is it?

KHALIL: No, that's not right. All of the sites that have historic heritage listing, those buildings, those features must be protected under law. We're doing work now to open up the museums and the other collections and other features that have not been made available, like in Victoria Barracks, Melbourne, which is almost as old as Lancer. There's the Cabinet Rooms where John Curtin met during World War II. The ashtrays are still there, Tom, the old phones, the maps. No one gets to see that. Not school groups, not tourists, not the general public. And it is a really significant historical place.

ORITI: So, isn't that enough to keep it in public hands, though? Is it enough to say we respect the heritage but we're still going to divest it?

KHALIL: Let's be clear, divestment means, and I've always said this, I've done dozens of town hall meetings where I've answered these questions of people. The divestment process includes making sure that it's no longer operational defence base, because we are spending the approximate is about $2 billion on sites that are historic to maintain and sustain them that are not meeting our operational requirements. Now, we can't do that on an ongoing basis for our defence forces. We need to make sure they have all the capabilities that they need. The divestment can be a private sale, it could be a trust, it could be state government working with taking it over. There's a lot of different options for these sites and it's interesting to me that, you know, I know politics is politics, listeners know that. People are jumping up and down about in Mosman, HMAS Penguin and all these big campaigns, everyone screaming and so on, but actually, we're not even divesting the operational base at Mosman. We're keeping the Navy Diving Clearance Centre. We're divesting a little bit on the top of the hill, which is some bushland.

ORITI: Sure. So, with Lancer Barracks, though, just to be clear, because we keep hearing about dollar figures and how much the government hopes to raise $3 billion from divestment, that kind of thing. It does sound as though, and the City of Parramatta certainly seems to be of the view that it will be sold.

KHALIL: Well, first and foremost, the decisions around what happens to each site are determined through a proper due diligence process. There is the market value of the site, but there's also community benefit. Community benefit that variables come in, such as history and heritage, and Lancer has a lot of that. So, there are elements of Lancer that are protected under Commonwealth heritage listings that need to be protected on an ongoing basis and will be. And also the community benefit of opening that up for the public to enjoy that, that history. So, that's a big part of the process for Lancer. Decisions will be made by the Department of Finance as the transition out of it being a defence base. I mean, there are probably 10 personnel,  ADF personnel at Lancer, about 100 reservists and some cadets as well. It is not, it has some functions, but frankly, when it comes to the needs that we have, the transition of those personnel to Holsworthy makes.

ORITI: Sorry, is that the plan? Is that imminent? Is it that those personnel will be sent to Holsworthy Barracks?

KHALIL: Yeah, the majority of the personnel will be transitioned to Holsworthy and their functions as well. And then also the historical elements of Lancer are, as I said, heritage listed and Commonwealth listed under heritage laws and will be protected. And the plan is to open up that site for the public so that they can enjoy that history that has been such a big part of Australia.

ORITI: Yeah, ok. I think the event starts in about five minutes. I'll let you go, Peter, but thank you very much for coming on. Appreciate it.

KHALIL: Thanks for having me, Tom. Take care. 

ORITI: Peter Khalil, there, Assistant Minister for Defence, joining us on the line and, yeah, he's talking to us because Lancer Barracks is a topic of conversation tonight in Parramatta, with an ADF session happening shortly at the Parramatta Town Hall.

ENDS