Television Interview, Sky News Australia

SUBJECTS: Middle East; Strait of Hormuz Freedom of Navigation Summit; new chief of ADF; Ben Roberts‑Smith, defence spending; Defence Delivery Agency; fuel; Newcastle mayoral election.

ANDREW CLENNELL: Joining me live is the Defence Industry Minister Pat Conroy. Thank you for your time, Pat Conroy. And let's start with the war ‑‑ 

MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY, PAT CONROY: My pleasure, Andrew. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Let's start with the war in the Middle East. More developments overnight. A suggestion US troops could storm ships in the Strait of Hormuz, firing by the Iranians on commercial ships, the Strait was open, now it's not. What's your latest information and reaction to developments? 

MINISTER CONROY: Well, obviously we're seeing a very fragile situation in the Strait of Hormuz. We condemn the attacks on civilian cargo ships, we're continuing to call for the ceasefire to continue, for negotiations to continue, and there to be a de‑escalation and an end to the conflict and for the Strait of Hormuz to be re‑opened. 

This is in the interests of the entire global economy. This conflict and the Strait of Hormuz situation is having a massive impact on the global economy, and we're obviously not immune from that reaching us in Australia. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: We've really seen a couple of false dawns here, haven't we, including yesterday morning? 

MINISTER CONROY: Well, it demonstrates the fragility of the situation and the need for talks to continue, and there to be de‑escalation. We're part of the diplomatic efforts to reopen the Strait of Hormuz, the summit in Paris a couple of days ago was an important part of that, but we need both sides to continue to talk and to find a way to end the conflict through de‑escalation.

ANDREW CLENNELL: How hopeful are you that Donald Trump and Iran can end the war in the next month or so? 

MINISTER CONROY: Oh, look, I'm not going to get into speculating or talking about my level of confidence. I think what we're seeing is a fast‑moving situation as you alluded to, Andrew; one day we hear news, next day we hear different news. 

All we can do as a responsible middle power is to say keep talking, continue the ceasefire, find a way to end the conflict, because the impact on the rest of the world is very significant, and we're seeing that in Australia right now. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Donald Trump keeps suggesting Australia hasn't helped with the war in terms of the Strait of Hormuz. What do you think he is referring to? 

MINISTER CONROY: Oh, well, that's a question for President Trump. What I can say to you and your viewers is we've had no formal request to provide naval assets to the Strait of Hormuz. We had one request from the United States, which was to support ‑ provide an E7A Wedgetail to support and defend the UAE. That was a request that was echoed by ‑ a direct request from the government of the UAE to provide that Wedgetail and to provide defensive support to innocent gulf states such as the UAE. We provided that Wedgetail, that's helping protect the UAE, other gulf states and the 20,000 Australians who are living in that region. But we've had no formal request to provide naval assets. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Have you had any ‑‑ 

MINISTER CONROY: And that's a statement of fact. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Have you had any informal requests, including in the conversation between Donald Trump and Anthony Albanese a few weeks back? Have you had any informal requests? 

MINISTER CONROY: Not to my knowledge. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Are you suggesting he's making it up? 

MINISTER CONROY: I'm not suggesting anything, Andrew, what I'm presenting to you is the facts as known by the Australian Government, and the fact is we've had no formal request to provide a naval asset to the Strait of Hormuz. We had a formal request to provide an E7A Wedgetail to help protect the UAE, and we've provided that because it was in our national interest to support countries like the United Arab Emirates. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Are you worried about the alliance given the President's comments? 

MINISTER CONROY: Not at all. The alliance is stronger today than it has been in a long, long time, it's the bedrock of Australian security. We're committed to increasing our sovereignty and self‑reliance, but that self‑reliance is within the alliance, and you saw that in the release of the National Defence Strategy which was very clear about increasing our sovereign manufacturing capability, partnering with like‑minded countries including Japan, the visit by the Japanese defence minister was very important, but our alliance with the United States still is the bedrock of our security. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Let's talk about a potential deployment by Australia as part of the UK‑France style military mission at the Strait of Hormuz. Is this possible, do you think, that this might occur? When are the UK and France going to deploy; would they only deploy in a peacetime situation? And what sort of resources could and would we deploy if we did? 

MINISTER CONROY: Well, as Prime Minister Albanese said yesterday, we're not quite at that stage of talking about specifics about what would be deployed and when. We were one of 49 countries that participated in the Strait of Hormuz Freedom of Navigation Summit. We'll participate in the next stage, which is a summit to be held in London shortly. 

We've said we're prepared to consider requests, but we're already providing the Wedgetail, we're already part of the diplomatic efforts, so we'll just see what comes of the London summit. I think a critical part of it is de‑escalating the conflict. I haven't seen anyone suggest that the efforts led by the Europeans would be going in while there was an active conflict, so it's essential that the conflict ends, and that we have de‑escalation, and then we've said we're happy to be prepared to consider being part of a diplomatic solution. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: I want to ask about the appointment of Mark Hammond as Chief of the Defence Force. It seems an age ago, but it was only last Monday. He's in his mid‑50s and younger than the traditional appointee to this role. It was put to me yesterday this means he could stay in the job a long time. Is that seen by the Government as an advantage? 

MINISTER CONROY: I wouldn't go that far. Admiral Hammond was the best candidate. I've known Mark for a long time, including when he was posted to Washington, and he has done a superb job as Chief of Navy, he'll do a superb job as Chief of the Defence Force. 

He's the first ADF personnel who entered as an enlisted rank, as a sailor, he was scrubbing decks, and now he's the Chief, or soon will be the Chief of the Defence Force. He's also the first ADFA graduate to be Chief of the Defence Force. So he'll do superbly, and I also want to pay tribute to Admiral David Johnston on his 48 years of service. He joined the Navy when he was 15 and he's done great work as Chief of Defence Force. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Does Mark Hammond's appointment show the future of Australia's defence is at sea? 

MINISTER CONROY: Well, we are a maritime nation, we've been very clear about that, and that's reflected in our investments in maritime capabilities, but also given the ability to the air force and the army to strike maritime targets as well. 

Mark is the first submariner to be Chief of the Defence Force. The new Chief of Navy is also a submariner, so we've had two submariners in a row, so they've been chosen on their merit. Mark Hammond has also commanded surface vessels, but look, we are a maritime nation, but we choose the best candidate for the job regardless of what service they're in. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: I want to ask about the charging of Ben Roberts‑Smith now. Has that had any effect on the morale of the military, do you think? 

MINISTER CONROY: Look, as Prime Minister Albanese said yesterday, I'm not going to comment on matters before the court, even in a peripheral way as your question alludes to; that's just not appropriate. We do not want this process politicised, and we've had, quite frankly, too many politicians talking about this issue, and they should respect ‑‑ 

ANDREW CLENNELL: All right. Well, let me try another way. 

MINISTER CONROY: ‑‑ the legal process. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Have you had any feedback from anyone in the military in relation to this? 

MINISTER CONROY: Again, Andrew, I'm just not going to comment on the issue at all. It's just not appropriate for politicians to talk about this issue, full stop; we should let the legal process take its course. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Could it take years? 

MINISTER CONROY: Oh, again, that's a question for the courts, not for a politician. Any politician who talks about legal processes is on very slippery slopes. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: All right. I'm hitting a brick wall there. So let's talk about this bit of talk during the week of a reclassification of what is defence spending, no doubt in part to sate the US's demands for more defence spending. 

Can you talk us through what you've done here and why you've done it, chucking military pensions in as defence spending, for example, defence housing, all the rest? 

MINISTER CONROY: Very happy to, Andrew. But let's start with some facts. We don't measure our commitment to defence by percentages of GDP, we measure it by dollars allocated to it. When Richard Marles and I go before the Expenditure Review Committee and argue for an increased investment in defence, we argue for X amount of dollars, and that's how you should judge our commitment. 

And the National Defence Strategy has an allocation, an extra allocation of $53 billion over the decade, which means since we've come to power we've increased the defence budget compared to the trajectory we inherited from the Coalition by $117 billion over the decade, and importantly $30 billion over of the forward statements. That's the biggest peacetime increase in the defence budget ever, and it demonstrates our commitment to safeguarding Australia and our interests. 

In terms of international comparisons, what we've been very clear about is, if you want to compare us internationally, you should compare apples with apples, not apples with oranges, and historically we've measured our defence expenditure as a percentage of GDP in a different way to the way NATO and the United States has done. 

So all we've done in the document is said, if you're going to compare us to other countries around the world, this is the appropriate NATO measurement, and at the NATO measurement we will achieve 3 per cent of GDP defence expenditure early in the next decade; we're currently at 2.8 per cent. That puts us ahead of all like‑minded countries in the Indo‑Pacific, it puts us ahead of almost every NATO country except for the United States and countries on the frontline against Russia like Poland. 

We're spending more on defence than the UK, Germany, France, but when you look at our commitment, look at the dollars, not the percentage of GDP ‑‑ 

ANDREW CLENNELL: All right let's talk about the dollars.

MINISTER CONROY: ‑We've increased it by $117 billion. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Yep. But $53 billion over 10 in this latest announcement, and a lot of that money's already committed to things like the Henderson shipyard, and a lot of it comes at the end of the 10 years. Isn't that a sign of how screwed the budget is that you can't commit more? 

MINISTER CONROY: Not at all. There's $14 billion in the NDS announcement in the forward estimates, including $2.5 billion that will flow from July 1. So that's a massive investment, and over the life of our Government, we've increased the defence budget by $30 billion over the forward estimates, and that money is flowing right now. 

So these commitments are having a meaningful impact. We're increasing our spending on autonomous systems from $10 billion to $15 billion, we're more than doubling our funding on guided weapons, so missile production, we're doubling our funding on missile defence. So this funding is flowing right now in the forward estimates and will continue over the decade and will reach $117 billion extra compared to what the Coalition committed to. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Do you see us as potentially a forward‑operating base for the US against China? 

MINISTER CONROY: Oh, look, our alliance is multi‑facetted with the United States, we have US rotation presence here through the Marine Rotational Force in Darwin. They will have submarines rotating through HMAS Stirling beginning next year. So that's an important part of the alliance, as is the shared facilities like Pine Gap. 

This alliance is the bedrock of our security, but I'm not going to speculate about potential use in a future hypothetical conflict. That's just not what Ministers do. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: All right. So the Defence Minister keeps saying it's the most challenging time since World War II.  Shouldn't there be a substantial uplift in spending on equipment immediately, not just over the 10 years, if that's the case? 

MINISTER CONROY: Well, we are, Andrew. Like let me give you some examples. I announced the biggest contract for Australian drone makers two years ago. That money is flowing through right now to equipping the Australian Defence Force. 

We provided the first armed drone for the Australian Army. The last government, the Coalition, cancelled the only armed drone project. They've got that armed drone now. 

Ghost Shark is entering service only two and a half, three years since it was an idea, through a factory built in Sydney that I opened in November. Ghost Bat is going gang busters and we're spending lots of money on the Ghost Bat Collaborative Combat Aircraft, the first combat aircraft designed and built in this country in 50 years. 

We've opened our first missile factory late last year, it's producing missiles right now and they were test fired two weeks ago. We'll have a second factory open next year, a third by the end of the decade. 

So we are investing in the ADF right now, and that will increase over time, but we are moving at light speed. We signed the contract for the Mogami‑class frigates. We'll have the first of those frigates in 2029. That is the fastest peacetime acquisition of a major piece of equipment ever. So we're moving fast because the strategic circumstances demand that. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: At light speed, Pat Conroy. Have you as Defence Industry Minister lobbied to get more money spent on drones, for example? I note the Defence Strategy places emphasis on uncrewed systems. 

MINISTER CONROY: I, like Richard Marles, have made a case for an increased investment in defence, and one part of that is the need to respond to the lessons for modern warfare, and drones are a critical part of that, and that's why we've increased the drone investment by $5 billion, increasing it by almost 50 per cent, and that's flowing through to Australian companies right now, and you can expect more announcements in the future about that. 

We make the best autonomous combat aircraft in the world, the Ghost Bat. We're building a factory west of Brisbane to produce them at a full rate production, and that's driving jobs in the local economy, and we're hopeful of selling that to like‑minded countries as well. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: You're setting up a Defence Delivery Agency. Is it true you're keener on that than Richard Marles? 

MINISTER CONROY: Not at all. Richard and I are lock step on that topic, as we are on all topics. I don't think you could find a Defence Minister and Defence Industry Minister that have worked as collaboratively as we have over the last four years. 

That Defence Delivery Agency is the biggest reform to the defence organisation in the last 50 years, and it would not have happened without the strong support and advocacy of both Richard Marles and myself working as a team. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Let's talk about fuel security. What do you make of the fire at the Viva refinery? The company and the Government insists this won't affect our fuel supply. How can you guarantee that? 

MINISTER CONROY: Well, obviously the timing was pretty poor and pretty unfortunate, but Viva and their workers have worked very hard. I want to pay tribute to the emergency service personnel who sprung into action to deal with the fire, and I'm very grateful no one was seriously injured. 

As the Prime Minister said on Friday, production of diesel and jet aviation fuel is at 80 per cent already, petrol is at 60 per cent, and we're hopeful that is moving up quickly. 

Viva have expressed confidence in sourcing replacement petrol internationally to manage that gap. And as Chris Bowen said yesterday, our stocks of petrol have increased to 46 days, that's 10 more days than when the conflict in Iran began in late February, our stocks of diesel at 31 days, our stock of jet aviation fuel at 30 days. 

We're working very hard to source additional supplies, that 100 million litres through two additional ships that Prime Minister Albanese announced earlier or later last week was an example of us moving quickly, following our plan to get additional supplies, because as you said in the introduction, this is a challenging period. If the conflict continues, it will be more challenging, and that's why we're working hard with our international partners. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: We've just had a Newcastle Mayoral election that's been put to me where Labor came third, they only got 16 per cent. The Greens came second, the right‑leaning independent won. Newcastle's a Labor area. The Greens were campaigning against defence spending at Williamtown, I'm told. What's your reaction to that result, and are there issues for the Labor Party? You're sort of flying high with your 94 seats, but is that looking a bit tenuous as we go forward with the cost‑of‑living crisis, et cetera? 

MINISTER CONROY: Oh, look, the history of the Newcastle Mayoralty is that I think over the last 30 years it's been held for the vast majority of that time by independents. There's a strong track record in Newcastle, which is not part of my electorate, of supporting independent Mayors, but very strong support for Labor at a State and Federal level, and we got strong swings towards Labor at the last general election, Federal Election, my margin moved from 6 per cent to 11 and a half per cent, and I'm very grateful for the trust that the constituents of Shortland have placed in me. 

In terms of the Greens' position, I've been very clear that I think their position on the Australian Defence Industry is a disgrace. We want to be more independent, we want to have more self‑reliance, we want to have sovereign manufacturing capability. And if it's good enough for the Royal Australian Navy to be equipped with a Naval strike missile, then we should make those missiles here, and I'm proud that we're building that factory at Williamtown that will lead to hundreds of good paying secure jobs for local Novacastrians and increase our independence. That's a good thing. 

I'm proud that we're building three missile factories in this country 'cause we need more self‑reliance, and this is what the Albanese Government is committed to. I think the Greens have pursued a highly cynical and unfortunately dishonest approach here that undermines the national interest and demonstrates they and the Coalition are both weak on national security and don't have the best interests of Australians at their heart. 

ANDREW CLENNELL: Defence Industry Minister Pat Conroy, thanks for your time. 

MINISTER CONROY: Thanks.

ENDS