Radio Interview, ABC Radio National News Breakfast

SUBJECTS: Virginia-class submarines, visit to Australia by Solomon Islands Prime Minister

SALLY SARA: Well, there's fresh debate about the value of the AUKUS deal with the US and UK, after the Federal Government this week scrapped plans to buy a new Virginia-class submarine in favour of an additional second hand model. The Coalition and crossbench MPs have demanded more information and transparency on the arrangements, while at least one Labor MP has openly dissented, with former Minister Ed Husic calling for a new vote inside cabinet.

ED HUSIC [EXCERPT]: But this deal has changed and as a result we need to recognise is there anything that is going to improve this outcome or order it? I don't think so and there's obviously been. I mean this is a great understatement, but you've seen within the broader movement, a general disquiet about the nature of the deal itself.

SALLY SARA: That's Labor MP Ed Husic speaking yesterday. Pat Conroy is the Minister for Defence Industry and joins me in our Parliament House studio this morning. Minister, welcome back to Breakfast.

MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY PAT CONROY: Thanks for having me, Sally.

SALLY SARA: Has the deal changed in a fundamental way, as Ed Husic argues, to warrant a re-examination of the AUKUS arrangements?

MINISTER CONROY: No, absolutely not. Acquiring three in-service submarines, I think that's a more appropriate term than used, was our preference when we developed this approach in late 2022. So, this is a better arrangement for Australia. To Ed's broader point, there's a bit of a sort of misunderstanding or rewriting of history around the caucus vote. The caucus vote in late 2021 was in response to the Morrison announcement of an intention to build nuclear powered submarines in Adelaide. There was no mention of Virginias because that wasn't part of the plan. The Morrison Government had no plan on how to bridge the capability gap that they'd left us by chopping and changing submarines so much. So, the Virginias only came on the picture in late 2022. So, the caucus vote was about AUKUS as a broad approach that still stands and it's still consistent. And Ed had his say then and the caucus decided that way. The new arrangement for three in-service submarines is better for Australia. It will be cheaper, simpler to manage. And that's been confirmed by the Pentagon overnight as well.

SALLY SARA. So, prior to this past week, had the government communicated publicly this preference for three in-service submarines?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, we keep our negotiations with our international partners private. We don't engage in megaphone diplomacy. The optimal pathway, as agreed to in early 2023, was the optimal pathway that benefited and was practical for all three countries. And that's where we landed. We're really happy that new data, new environment has changed submarine availability, maintenance has improved in the US system, which means that the US Navy feels comfortable releasing a third-in-service submarine. That means it'll be cheaper and simpler for us to run. It means these submarines will be the same configuration and we won't have to deal with that initial running period for any new platform of this complexity, where problems arise - that risk is being borne by the US system. We'll get submarines after the first step-up level maintenance about six years into their 33-year life cycle. They'll be cheaper, they'll be really effective at that stage and we'll be acquiring the most capable nuclear powered, conventionally armed submarines in the world.

SALLY SARA: In an exchange at Senate estimates last night, Defence Secretary Meghan Quinn defended the in-service submarines. Let's take a listen.

MEGHAN QUINN [EXCERPT]: There are many reasons why three in-service would be simpler, lower cost through the training of staff, the sustainment arrangements, the maintenance requirements and all of those considerations.

SALLY SARA: If that's the case, that they're cheaper and easier to operate, why didn't we originally go with buying three second hand or in-service subs?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, quite frankly, because it was not consistent with where the US and UK saw the optimal arrangement. It's one where you negotiate and you reach a compromise across all three parties. And what's occurred over the last two years is the US system has got greater confidence about their performance in terms of lifting maintenance of their Collins, of their Virginia-class submarines rather, so that another one can be released. So, what Meghan Quinn was talking about was this would have been our preference when we originally struck the deal, but circumstances have changed now that we can do that. And this is another example of the US administration making an active decision to support AUKUS and confirm their commitment to it.

SALLY SARA: How much will we save?

MINISTER CONROY: We'll save a considerable amount. Well, I'm not going to disclose that now because we're still negotiating with the United States over it. But acquiring a third-in-service submarine will be simpler and cheaper to run and maintain and it will be cheaper to acquire.

SALLY SARA: Will these subs that are in-service, will they actually be more expensive to maintain in the long term?

MINISTER CONROY: No, no, because complex platforms like submarines are at the most expensive to maintain at the start of their life to the end of their life. So, by getting them six years in after the first step-up level maintenance, we'll avoid the really expensive, risky running period for any new platform and we'll get them at their peak capability, which is when they're most mature.

SALLY SARA: Minister, are you confident that the in-service subs will be delivered on time?

MINISTER CONROY: I am, I am. And they're an important bridging gap. We should always go back to base principles. Why are we getting the Virginias? It's because the last government chopped and changed from Australian-built submarines to Japanese-built submarines and French-built submarines and left a massive capability gap of over a decade. And we've had to fill that through extending the life of the Collins-class and acquiring three Virginia-class submarines. That's why we're doing this, whereas the long-term goal is to build our own submarines in Australia, creating 20,000 well paid, high skilled jobs.

SALLY SARA: Former Labor minister Peter Garrett is spearheading a crowdfunded inquiry into AUKUS. He says he will welcome briefings from the government. Will you take him up on that offer?

MINISTER CONROY: Oh, we haven't made a decision there. I note this inquiry is run by the Australia Institute, which is a mouthpiece of the Greens political party. It's consistent with where the Greens have been from day one. I've got a lot of respect for Peter Garrett in his contribution to public life, but the Australian Institute has been opposed to AUKUS from day one. And I'm willing to predict that the conclusions will match where they've started from.

SALLY SARA: With Peter Garrett's leadership there, do you have confidence that it will reach a fair conclusion given his opposition to nuclear?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, that's a question for him. We've got an inquiry run by the Australian Institute, a Greens political party mouthpiece that's opposed to AUKUS, run by Peter Garrett, who's got a proud history of opposition to nuclear power and I respect that. He stood for the Senate for the Nuclear Disarmament Party in 1984 and almost got elected. It's up to him to explain how it will be independent and evaluate the data based on what's in front of him.

SALLY SARA: Just finally, you're also Minister for Pacific Island Affairs. The new Solomon Islands Prime Minister Matthew Wale is in Canberra today. I saw the flags flying around Canberra yesterday, all ready to go. Is his ascent to the top job an opportunity for Australia to improve the relationship in your view?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, the relationship's been improved over the last few years since we came to government after the disastrous efforts of the Coalition. But I've known Prime Minister Wale for a number of years. I've met him a number of times on my five visits to the Solomon Islands. He's brought a group of really ambitious ministers with him and we're really excited about elevating the relationship even further as we've done with countries like PNG, Tuvalu, Nauru, soon to be Fiji as well. So, it's really exciting. And this is a great opportunity for the Albanese Labor Government to continue to repair relationships with the Pacific and repair the damage done by the coalition.

SALLY SARA: Minister, I appreciate you coming in this morning. Thank you very much.

MINISTER CONROY: My pleasure.