Television Interview, ABC Briefing

SUBJECTS: AUKUS; Defence Spending; China Interaction.

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: So, let's return to the sort of defence dimensions of this big meeting. Donald Trump says AUKUS is full steam ahead. That is a significant moment for Australia considering the US President hadn't really uttered the word ‘AUKUS’ up until now. Some people questioning if he really understood or had his head around it or was engaged. Pat Conroy is the Defence Industry Minister. He has spent a lot of time in Washington D.C. I’m sure he's relieved to be back. Welcome to the program.

MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY, THE HON PAT CONROY MP: Thanks, PK.

KARVELAS: What did the, what did the US Naval Secretary John Phelan mean, in your view, when he said there was some ambiguity in the AUKUS agreement that needs to be cleared up?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, I think Secretary Phelan was pointing out that we're always on the search for opportunities to improve the AUKUS arrangements. That's why all three countries, countries have conducted reviews into it and have suggested recommendations, certainly in the UK and the Australian cases. And we wait to hear what the US review comes back with. But the critical thing is President Trump in the outstanding meeting that occurred overnight, said that it was full steam ahead with AUKUS, that we would be getting those submarines and that he saw as a critical part of promoting deterrence and peace in the Indo-Pacific.

KARVELAS: Okay, but is he referring to moral, to sort of more and clearer clarity over how the submarines would be deployed or who has command over them?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, I think questions about what he was referring to are best directed to him. But we've made it very clear on, PK. We made it very clear on the questions of sovereignty and command that these southern rings will be owned by Australia, they'd be crewed by Australians, they'd be commanded by Australians, and they will report to the elected government of the day. And none of that is in play. I think what the various AUKUS reviews have looked at is ways of improving the delivery of what is a transformational pact. And we're open to suggestions on how we can improve it. We flagged some ideas about how we can work closer together and that's been positively received.

KARVELAS: Just want to get absolute clarity from you. You're saying sovereignty or command is absolutely not under review or part of the dimensions of questions that were raised today about ambiguity?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, what I can say to you is the Australian Government's position is clear and it is not changing that these will be Australian-owned, crew-controlled and commanded submarines. Our sovereignty is paramount, and that is, that will, not change.

KARVELAS: Are you relieved that Donald Trump has kind of put a bit of, I think sort of cold water, lowered the temperature on the level of our defence spending?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, I think it was great that President Trump recognised that we're investing significantly in defence. As I referred to when I was in Washington last week, using the NATO measurement, we spend about 2.8% of GDP on defence and that's increasing. And that puts us ahead of every European nation or every NATO nation, other than Poland and the Baltic States, has put us ahead of the other Indo Pacific partners of the United States. So, we're investing significantly in our defence, which is critical to our safety in the Indo Pacific.

KARVELAS: So, I know there are some people inside of government that would like defence spending to be even higher. Does it make it harder when you're having your own internal discussions to, to raise defence spending, given Donald Trump seemed rather relaxed today?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, from Prime Minister Albanese down, we've made it very clear that we're not focused on setting a percentage target of GDP and then working out how to spend the dollars. We make decisions based on the capabilities that the ADF needs. And Prime Minister Albanese has said that if Defence and the Deputy Prime Minister and myself make the case for capability, then we will fund them. And there's no better example of that than our recent announcement of $12 billion for the Henderson maritime precinct to deliver continuous naval shipbuilding and deep level maintenance of submarines. When a capability is required, we'll make that investment. That's how we drive our defence budget, and that will be the consistent principle driving the Albanese Labor Government's commitment to defence.

KARVELAS: I have to change the topic and talk about that incident that we've been discussing in the South China Sea. Both China's military and independent analysts say Sunday's confrontation with the PLA happened over - just talk to me about the islands that happened over - are they correct in their assessment, because they've pushed back today, and suggested that this was actually their sovereign territory?

MINISTER CONROY: No, that, that's respectfully incorrect. This, this incident occurred over international waters. We conduct these flights on a regular basis, always over international waters. And we maintain that what occurred was unsafe and not according to what a professional military should conduct itself. And that's why we've called it out. The Chinese military should conduct itself in a safe and professional manner, as should all militaries around the world.

KARVELAS: Okay, so you're saying that their response, saying that your statement is incorrect is wrong?

MINISTER CONROY: I'm saying that this flight was over international waters.

KARVELAS: You said, it's a routine patrol. Is Australia trying to gather intelligence on China?

MINISTER CONROY: What we do is we do routine patrols through areas of the Indo-Pacific that are of interest to us. We fly through over international waters and that's the right of every nation around the world. So, these are the normal course of operations you'd expect a military to do. It's also a good training exercise for our crews and that's why we do these sorts of activities.

KARVELAS: Okay, so it wasn't about gathering intelligence about the militarisation of the region, despite international rulings against its claims.

MINISTER CONROY: It was a flight for a number of reasons and we do these routinely.

KARVELAS: And what happens next then? I know Australia has lodged an objection to this, but this does seem to be happening, happening more frequently. Where does that leave Australia? What more action are you prepared to take?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, we'll continue to raise this through all the appropriate channels, both military and political, and we'll continue to do that. We'll continue to call out when militaries are operating in an unsafe and unprofessional manner. We'll do it transparently with balanced, nuanced language. And that's the way you would expect an adult government to conduct itself.

KARVELAS: Ok, but does it need a sort of higher level intervention? We know that the Prime Minister spent obviously a long period of time in fact in China and it was quite the red-carpet treatment. Does it need an intervention at that level?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, these matters have been raised at senior levels and we'll continue to do so where it's appropriate. So, we'll do that. But we'll do that in a steady, precise matter that respects our values and the professional approach the Australian Defence Force takes to these sorts of issues.

KARVELAS: Just in terms of some plain talking for the Australian public. The Australian Government's pretty angry about this, right?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, we are concerned about it. We're very concerned about it. It was unsafe and unprofessional and it's one of a number of incidents and we'll continue to call them out and stand up for Australian values and the interests of the Australian people.

KARVELAS: Does it demonstrate that while there was a lot of talk about a sort of stabilization, if you like, of the relationship, that it is in actual it is in some trouble on these, on this front?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, we've been very successful in stabilizing the relationship with China and restoring trade and that's important. That drives hundreds of thousands, if not millions of jobs and we'll continue to do that. And this is all underpinned by principles around cooperate where we can, but disagree where we must. And on this issue we clearly disagree. We very strongly the view that is unsafe and unprofessional and we'll call out these sorts of behaviours. You can do that when you've got a mature relationship that use balanced, reasonable language rather than trying to politicise things like the last government did with our relationship with China. 

KARVELAS: Pat Conroy, always great to speak to you. Thank you so much for joining us. 

MINISTER CONROY: Thanks, PK. Have a good afternoon.

ENDS