Radio Interview, Triple J - Hack

SUBJECTS: Comments by Israeli Prime Minister on Australian Recognition of a Palestinian State, Middle East Conflict

DAVE MARCHESE [HOST]: Labor MP Peter Khalil is the Assistant Minister for Defence and he's with us now to have a chat. Peter, thank you very much for joining us on Hack.

PETER KHALIL [ASSISTANT MINISTER]: Yeah, thanks Dave. G'day.

HOST: How would you describe Australia's relationship with Israel right now?

KHALIL: I think as the PM said today, he really doesn't take these things personally and the PM did the right thing. He called Netanyahu a couple of weeks ago and said, look, this is what we're going to do. We're going to recognise Palestine at the UN. We want to build momentum towards a two state solution. We want an end to this horrific war, this horrific conflict and the horrific loss of innocent life. And he, I think, showed strength in leadership, in calling up the Israeli PM and letting him know what our intentions are. So, it was probably best that he didn't respond tit for tat for that kind of commentary.

MARCHESE: If you think it's fair enough that the Prime Minister didn't respond with a similar reaction. What do you think of your colleague Tony Burke's response to say that, you know, strength is not about how many people you can blow up?

KHALIL: Yeah, look, Tony made it clear that strength is much better measured by what our Prime Minister has done, and strength in leadership is not about that. The actions of the Netanyahu Government and the words that are coming from there have really isolated Israel from the international community. You know, despite the fact that there has been tremendous support for and condemnation of what Hamas did on October 07, the international community has also been very critical of the actions taken since, the example would be the need for unimpeded humanitarian access for people in Gaza who are suffering, who are starving. And we've also supported the adherence to international law and really backed in the ICJ, which is the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court, to look at all of the war crimes allegations, whether it be from Hamas or the IDF. So, there has been strong condemnation of what they've done and I think the international community is working in sync now towards what we all want to see which is an end to the killing, and to see peace.

MARCHESE: There's been a bit of criticism of the government's actions in this space. Like the Coalition is saying Israel is an important ally and has accused your government of poor diplomacy. What do you say to that?

KHALIL: Look, I disagree with the Coalition. You wouldn't be surprised that I disagree with their view on this. I think if they're referring to the cancellation of the visa for an Israeli politician, the right wing politician who said things like Palestinian children are enemies of Israel, the Australian Government has the power, through the Home Affairs Minister, to refuse visas for those who would come here and spread division and discord amongst communities. Now, we can't stop people watching whatever they watch on the internet or through the media and so on, but we do have the power not to grant a visa. By the way, I should say Tony Burke has also not granted visas to people who wanted to come here who were spewing anti-Semitism or hatred towards Jews, whether it's Kanye West or Candace Owens. So, he's taken those actions and there's been a consistency there.

MARCHESE: So, where do we go from here in terms of the relationship with Israel? Because it's obviously in a really difficult situation right now and things have escalated over the past few days. Does the government want to repair the relationship? What happens now?

KHALIL: It's a good question. I mean, the Netanyahu Government is not Israel.

MARCHESE: It is the Government of Israel though.

KHALIL: Well, when you look at Israeli domestic politics, and I mean it’s far from me for being a commentator on that, but around seventy to eighty per cent of the people there want to see end to the war. They want the hostages returned. There's strong criticism of the actions taken by the Netanyahu Government. There are many things that Australia does with Israel which, which are important, whether it's security related information being shared about terrorism, all those types of things, I hope that those things continue because they're mutually beneficial. But there will be ups and downs in any relationship. And at the moment there is a period of tension, clearly. But we are firm in what we're saying and what we believe, which is there is a need for peace. I've got to say to you, Dave, I'm of Egyptian background, my dad and my grandparents, my uncles were in the Egyptian army. They fought in wars during the 20th century against Israel for Palestinian and their right to self-determination. This has been going on since 1948 and there have been multiple wars and people have had enough of the death and the destruction.

MARCHESE: All right, this is Hack. I'm Dave Marchese. I'm speaking with Labor MP Peter Khalil, Assistant Minister for Defence, about what is happening in this relationship between Australia, Israel. Some real escalation in the words that we've noticed over the past few days. Hearing from you on the text line, someone says Israel thinks it can speak and act with impunity because of US support. Dylan says what Netanyahu thinks of us should be the bottom of our priority list. But then someone else, Albo's a disgrace, destroying alliances by recognising and rewarding Hamas. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East, is that comment there. And then someone else says, as a Jew living in Australia, I'm scared of my future here. Peter Khalil, I did want to ask about that because Benjamin Netanyahu has said he thinks the Australian government's plan amounts to pouring fuel on anti-Semitism. You were the Special Envoy for Social Cohesion. Are you worried that this issue between Australia and Israel or the governments could drive up harassment of Jewish Australians?

KHALIL: I think that's a really important to note that when I was Special Envoy for Social Cohesion, I worked really hard with all of the communities. I spent a lot of time with Muslim Australians, with Palestinian Australians. I spent a lot of time with Jewish Australians because they were all feeling the negative impact of the war and the conflict overseas. Australians don't want to see this conflict brought over here. We have every right to protest injustices and the horrors and the killing that's going on, and we should. The voices need to be heard. What I think is really important to note is we should never, ever allow or accept attacking a Jewish Australian or a Muslim Australian because of their faith. A Muslim Australian has no responsibility for what Hamas does and a Jewish Australian doesn't have a responsibility for what the IDF is doing.

MARCHESE: Peter Khalil, Just, finally, one of the things that we hear a lot is why isn't Australia doing more to end all military cooperation with Israel? Like, should Australia stop supplying F-35 parts to a global supply chain that can be accessed by Israel?

KHALIL: There's a lot of debate around this. We have not sold weapons to Israel for over five years, and I know this because we have checked all of the export licences and so on. No weapons have been sold to Israel. You mentioned the F-35, Dave. The F-35 is a critical part of our Air Force. It's a plane that's used by multiple countries. Norway, the Netherlands, Australia, the UK, other countries and so on. And there are Australian companies that are part of the supply chain.

MARCHESE: But there are those out there who believe Australia's supply of components and parts to the F-35 fighter jets which have been used by Israel, that that constitutes directly the facilitation of war crimes. I'm wondering, are you comfortable with that?

KHALIL: I don't agree with that assessment at all because as I said, the Australian companies supply non-lethal parts to the F-35.

MARCHESE: What does non-lethal mean?

KHALIL: These are parts that the Australian companies provide to the F-35. So, there is a real. There's a global supply chain. There's over 100 companies that are involved in the supply of the F-35. 

MARCHESE: I guess the question, Peter Kahlil, is that a lot of people would have is what does non-lethal mean? Like if you're supplying one component to an F-35 that's resulting in the deaths of people, does it matter which component of the fighter jet you're talking about?

KHALIL: Yeah as I said to you, Dave, the Australian companies that are involved in a global supply chain, they provide the parts to the building and the manufacturer of the plane and then countries purchase that plane. Australia purchases the F-35 and utilise the F-35 in our Air Force. I think what's most effective, Dave, is the actions that we've taken with respect to the fact that we don't sell any weapons directly to Israel and the work that we're doing diplomatically, the establishment of a genuine two state solution so those people can live in peace after 80 years of war and destruction.

MARCHESE: Alright, Assistant Minister for Defence Peter Khalil, thank you very much for joining us.

KHALIL: Thanks very much, Dave. See you.

ENDS