Radio Interview, ABC Radio National Breakfast

SUBJECTS: Defence Estate Audit Update; US Midterm Elections; ANZAC memorials

SALLY SARA, HOST: Richard Marles is the Minister for Defence and Deputy Prime Minister. I spoke to him earlier. Minister, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Sally.

SARA: Well, why did the Federal government change its mind and decide to keep these four defence sites?

MARLES: Firstly, what we're doing is having Defence divest itself of these sites. In other words, Defence vacating these sites. And that's still happening. What's really important here is that they're no longer part of the estate, because managing these sites as Defence sites comes with a massive cost. We've also said from the outset that we wanted to ensure that the very significant history which forms part of these sites is maintained. Of course, these are heritage listed and so are protected by law. But maintaining these four sites in public ownership provides another layer to ensure that that history is maintained, that heritage is there. And that's why we also announced yesterday that we'll engage the Australian War Memorial to do work to interpret these sites, so that the really significant defence stories which form part of them can be told in a bigger and better way to a much larger audience. I mean, the important point to understand right now is these sites are off limits. People don't have access to them. But as a result of what we're doing now, they will be opened up to the public. And, you know, Sydneysiders will be able to enjoy Victoria Barracks Sydney. Those in Melbourne will be able to enjoy Victoria Barracks Melbourne.

SARA: When was this decision made?

MARLES: Well, we've been working through all the 67 sites, so yesterday was really the first significant update and we continue to do that and we've been clearly listening to the community, but working through the future, if you like, of each of these sites. And so it's been made in that context. And we've made the decision around public ownership in respect of these four sites. But, for example, we've also made a decision yesterday to see that Stokes Hill fuel installation be transferred to the Larrakia people, where there is a registered sacred site. This is in the Northern Territory. We made a decision yesterday to have the Angophora Forest, which forms part of HMAS Penguin, transferred to the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust. So, we've been working through each of the sites and how we can work out their future in the best possible way.

SARA: You'd been defending the proposed sell-off, particularly around Victoria Barracks Sydney, for quite some time. Was it a captain's call by the Prime Minister to change the decision?

MARLES: We've been working this through as a government, but I mean, the key point for me is that Defence vacates the site and that's the point that I've been making all along. And that is going to happen. We face the prospect –

SARA: If that was the key point, why not put, for example, Victoria Barracks Sydney into public hands at the beginning? Why is that happening now?

MARLES: Well, I mean, we've been working through, as I say, all of the sites in terms of what their future should be and how we can look at that. And there's been a number of decisions that have been taken in respect of a number of the sites in terms of how they be handled. But the fundamental point here, which has been a big project, has been to have Defence leave the sites. And that is what is occurring. In respect of Victoria Barracks Sydney, most of the personnel, in fact all but a handful, will be off the site by the end of the year. And that's what's critical here. Because right now, with that site, for example, Victoria Barracks Sydney, in the Defence estate, Defence was looking at spending $200 million over the next decade to maintain it as a Defence site with all the security that goes with that. The key thing here is to make sure that the Defence estate in the future is the proper base for defence in terms of its fundamental job, and that's defending Australia - and that's the argument that we've been making all along.

SARA: What effect will this change to decisions have on the federal budget?

MARLES: Look, it won't have an impact in the sense that the way in which the sites are being managed and disposed of is accounted for in the budget. In respect of the four heritage sites that we're talking about, the commercial value to develop them is limited because of the heritage overlay. So, we've always understood that. What will happen now going forward is that as the Department of Finance manages them, as they are transferred to the Department of Finance, which again, was always the intent, they will manage them in a way which seeks to maximise community and commercial use, and so there will be some financial return. But it was never imagined that there would be a lot from these sites. The accounting of the disposal of the whole of the 67 sites, in that sense, remains unchanged.

SARA: The Shadow Defence Minister, James Paterson, says Victoria Barracks Sydney site would have been one of the most lucrative defence properties sold if they'd have gone ahead. He says he finds it very difficult to see how your government's budget numbers now add up. Can you explain that?

MARLES: Well, he's just wrong in terms of being a lucrative site. And it really goes to the fundamental point that we've been making all along. There is a significant heritage overlay in respect of Victoria Barracks Sydney, as there is in relation to the other sites, not just in terms of the buildings, but the layout of the site, which really would significantly limit the commercial development of it and therefore the value of it. And it's the point that we've made all along. Step back. The budget here is that the value of all 67 sites is budgeted as around $3 billion. Let's imagine there's about $1.8 billion that will be spent on readying the sites for sale, meaning a net return to Defence of $1.2 billion. That's what's been budgeted. That's not a large number in the context of the 67 sites. And the only way you get to that number is if, in fact, there is a relatively small value which has been placed on big sites like Victoria Barracks Sydney. So, that is the case. And any detailed look at how we have budgeted this from the get-go completely answers that question. And so this doesn't change the numbers going forward.

SARA: You're listening to Radio National Breakfast. My guest is the Deputy Prime Minister, Richard Marles. In the wake of the midterm elections in the US, have you had any talks with US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth?

MARLES: I've not. I mean, I saw Secretary Hegseth literally the week before the midterms at the ADMM Plus meeting in Cebu in the Philippines. So, that's literally 10 days ago, I think, and spoke to him there about our bilateral agenda, which is very substantial.

SARA: Just finally, on a separate issue, in the lead up to Remembrance Day, some of the veteran groups are reporting that a couple of ANZAC memorials have been vandalised ahead of Remembrance Day. How concerned are you about those kinds of acts?

MARLES: Oh, well, look, I actually wasn't aware of that, but that's appalling if that's what's occurred. I mean, these memorials are absolutely sacred and they speak to, you know, a hugely significant part of our history. But much more than that, they speak to the sense of gratitude that we have for all of those who've made the ultimate sacrifice in serving our nation, but indeed everyone who has worn our nation's uniform. And I find it utterly appalling given the significance of those sites that anyone would seek to demean them.

SARA: Richard Marles, thank you very much for joining me.

MARLES: Thanks, Sally.

ENDS