Television Interview, Sunrise

SUBJECTS: Defence Estate Audit; Annual Cyber Threat Report for 2025-26

HOST, NATALIE BARR: Defence personnel based at Victoria Barracks in Sydney have begun packing boxes as they prepare to be evicted by Christmas. It's part of the Federal government's controversial sell off of almost 70 Defence properties across the country, also including the Victoria Barrack sites in Melbourne and Brisbane. It sparked growing backlash from our veterans who say this would sever a historic connection going back generations, like our ANZACs in World War I. For more, let's bring in Defence Minister Richard Marles, who's in charge of the sell off. Good morning to you. We know the plan is to put the profits back into other Defence assets, but put the money aside for a moment. Our bravest men and women walked through the gates of Victoria Barracks and signed up to go to war. Many never came home. Is this the kind of landmark we should be selling?

MARLES: Well, it's the kind of landmark that we should be celebrating and that's what we are planning to do. I mean that amidst all that's been spoken about here, most members of the Australian Army have never been to Victoria Barrack Sydney. You know, right now, most members of the Australian Army are not able to go to Victoria Barrack Sydney. What this will do from a heritage point of view, in terms of telling the story of the Australian Army, telling all the things that you've just said, is give it a much wider audience and open this asset up to the people of Sydney and the people of Australia. Right now, this is closed off from people. So, all that you've just described and all the celebration that could occur is being denied by this being maintained as a closed Defence site, which it is right now. And the point here is that to maintain it as a Defence site over the next ten years will cost $200 million. Now, my job actually is to worry about the money and to worry about defence of Australia going forward. No one, no one is making an argument that Victoria Barrack Sydney is central to the defence of Australia. This is a site that should be returned to Australians, should be rightly celebrated in the way that you're describing and Defence should get on with the business of defending Australia.

BARR: Okay, and most Australians, I guess, haven't been able to go in either-

MARLES: They haven't.

BARR: Can developers be trusted, though, to maintain the most important heritage elements of these sorts of.

MARLES: Well, precisely because of that question, the heritage value of this site is protected by law. The buildings, the layout of the site, and that's why the actual predicted sale price of this is not anywhere near what people would imagine, because there is a significant heritage overlay here. But to be clear, there's a way to go in respect of this. I mean, what we're doing right now is moving Defence personnel off these sites around Australia. In respect of Victoria Barrack, Sydney to expected that most will move by the end of the year. When we announced this back in February, we said we'd give ourselves two years to do this, but this will then be handed to the Department of Finance and time will be taken to get this right. So, there's a way to go in relation to this.

BARR: So, if you have to house them somewhere else, people are saying, well, you know, you're going to have to pay the rent somewhere else. Why- why move from here if you're not going to make that much money out of it?

MARLES: Because we are already paying the rent, Nat, and that's the point. You've got Defence Plaza Sydney within a kilometre of here that was set up by the former Coalition government. Not a bad policy. It is sitting 60 per cent empty: 60 per cent empty. We've got space at Randwick Barracks, so we've got space for these people and for these functions and we will use them. And space which is much more appropriate to what the functions are. We can do that, there's no more rent. And on the other hand, we can return this incredible site to the people of Sydney. And I think when the doors are open and people get to see the magnificence of this place, they'll understand that this really should be in the hands of the whole of Australia, not just a few in the Defence Force.

BARR: Okay. There's word that it could be used for housing, schools, public parkland, arts facilities. There's similar sites in Melbourne and Brisbane. Can you guarantee they won't knock any of it down?

MARLES: I can definitely guarantee that, because it will be protected by law in respect of the heritage of the site. Exactly what its use is, is something that we need to take time to work through, and that will be done by the Department of Finance, who are the, you know, the proper asset managers of the Commonwealth. But in terms of your critical question: absolutely. These buildings are protected by law, so none of that changes. Look, we get there's a lot of emotion around this and that's understandable, but this is a much better heritage outcome. Many more people are going to get to enjoy it and many more people are going to understand the very stories that you started this interview with, the significance of the role of the ANZACs, the role that this place has played, and that will be a good thing in terms of Australia's understanding of its military past.

BARR: Okay, before we let you go, we are being warned. Australia is coming under increasing number of cyber-attacks. I think 1,500 in the past year, up 20 per cent on the year before. Who's behind them and what do they want?

MARLES: Well, a lot of this is happening in the grey zone there. There are malicious actors. The places from where this has come hasn't really changed. What has changed is the use of artificial intelligence. I mean, this jump of 20 per cent in a single year is very significant. Malicious actors are able to use AI to detect vulnerabilities in people's systems. So, what we're saying is if you've got an old system which is connected to the internet that is a gateway to your systems, you've got to get rid of it. You've got to prioritise safeguarding your systems and if that means bringing them down for a couple of days to harden them, do it. And you've got to use AI yourself. There's AI products out there. You can go to cyber.gov.au there's a lot of advice about how to use it, but this is what you need to do to protect yourself in this new environment.

BARR: Okay. Richard Marles, thank you for your time.

MARLES: Thanks, Nat.

ENDS