Radio Interview, ABC Drive Melbourne

SUBJECTS:  Death of a soldier in a training exercise; Young veterans; Fraud Fusion Task Force.

CHARLIE PICKERING, HOST: Now I want to talk about an issue close to our hearts here at Drive, and that is veterans who have been very important to us. We've talked about a number of issues. It all started with one phone call from a former servicewoman, Liz Boulton. She told us about the difficulty that young veterans were having connecting, and before you knew it, we were broadcasting live from the Coburg RSL, hearing about all the stories of our returned servicemen and women, those who have served this country and how we can do a better job of keeping them connected once they leave the service. 

To talk about that and a few other issues on the table, I'm joined by the Minister for Veteran Affairs, Matt Keogh. Good afternoon, Matt. 

MATT KEOGH, MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL: Good afternoon, great to be with you. 

PICKERING: Right. Now just quickly, before we talk about veterans, we have heard today that ‑ the sad news that a soldier has died in a training exercise in the Northern Territory. What do we know about that? 

KEOGH: So he has passed away in a training exercise yesterday. There's another five soldiers who were also injured from that same incident. Obviously, families have been notified, and our condolences go out to that soldier's family, as well as our best wishes to all of those that are recovering from that incident as well. 

Families, you know, we do ask for privacy at this time, and when we're in a position to provide more detail, then we'll do that, but, you know, it's the unique nature of military service that we try to make all of our training exercises and everything we do as safe as possible. But the nature of what our Defence Force train for also has an inherently more dangerous element to it as well, and we never want to see things like this occur. It's always tragic whenever any member of our Defence Force passes away, and I know all members of the Defence Force will be feeling that today in particular, and not just condolences for the family but everyone in the Defence family. 

PICKERING: Those risks are obviously ever‑present. How common are accidents and fatal accidents in training? It doesn't feel like there are that many making the papers. 

KEOGH: Well, obviously every one is one too many, and we definitely don't want them to be in any way a regular occurrence, but we're always also working with Defence to make sure that all of their training programs and the way that they operate are done in the safest way possible as well to make sure that we minimise absolutely any risk of these sorts of things occurring. 

PICKERING: And we'll wait to hear more news on that and details as they emerge, as you say, as the investigations progress. 

Now as I mentioned, we've spoken a lot to veterans on the program, had a great time at the Coburg RSL and lots of calls as well. One of the big things that we heard from them were concerns over the allied health cap, and the Government has now dropped that policy and changed their approach. Looking back on that, was that policy a mistake? 

KEOGH: Well, I think when we look at overall what we've been trying to achieve in that area was looking at a better regime of access and well-being outcomes for veterans, and part of that was increasing the fees that we would pay to allied health providers to make sure that they stayed in the system of providing service to our veteran community, and we're keeping that element, and we were looking at changing the review mechanisms that exist there. What's there at the moment is where veterans have to go back every 12 sessions for a new referral. We were looking at moving that to a different threshold type. But we said, and we did consult with veterans. We listened to the feedback from veterans and the community. We're not proceeding with that element. 

But what we're always looking to do, and we're continuing to have these discussions with the veteran community and with providers, is around how do we make sure we get the best overall outcomes for the veterans, not just in allied health but across all of the services that we seek to provide and support veterans with. 

PICKERING: In achieving those outcomes, the point of this policy was to, like, stop over-servicing and achieve a better budget outcome as well. I guess so there's more money to actually be sent on those services. What's the Government doing now to, you know, to confront those problems? There's still, you know, issues; we still have to have not over-servicing, we have to make sure that every dollar goes where it needs to. Are you pursuing other ways to tackle those problems? 

KEOGH: So the intent of the policy there primarily was around making sure we were getting the best health outcomes and well-being outcomes for the veteran community through accessing allied health services. But we have other measures that we are continuing with around the integrity of the system, and certainly for those who watched Four Corners last night they would have seen some of the issues that have arisen in terms of where there's been misuse of the system by certain providers and actors taking advantage of the veteran community and misusing taxpayer's funds in the process, and where we have a number of systems in place that we're engaged in making sure that practitioners can't do that or where they are found to be doing that, that they are dealt with appropriately, and we've got a number of ongoing investigations with the AFP, as well as working across the Fraud Fusion Task Force that does work with DVA and Medicare and NDIS and others to make sure that those small number of providers that are taking advantage of veterans are not able to do that. 

PICKERING: Yeah, we heard about that. Well, the first we heard about it was yesterday because of the Four Corners investigation. Were you already aware of that, and were you already hearing those problems from our veterans and tackling the problem? 

KEOGH: So we were aware of these issues that have been occurring in terms of billing DVA for services not provided, not actually providing the full service to a veteran, sort of making misleading representations with the veteran community about what sort of coordinated care would be provided. And that's why, as a government, we invested over $200 million into beefing up our integrity efforts within DVA. 

We did a lot of work when we came into government about improving claims processing and the way in which DVA works to make sure that veterans get access to the services that they need. In doing that, it's almost meant that it's attracted some bad actors into the system and seeing that that's occurred, we've also made sure we've made that investment to keep them out of the system as much as we can, but where we're finding them, we're making sure that we deal with them as well. 

PICKERING: There were stories in the Four Corners about, like, massive over-prescription of medical cannabis to people who expressed some addiction issues with regards to medical cannabis, and other provision of services and spending that was absolutely unnecessary. Do we have a dollar figure on what this has cost, which could have been going to services that are very much needed? 

KEOGH: So the medicinal cannabis is a good example of where we saw misuse occurring in the system, and we went in, and we tightened up the regulations and guidelines around how that operates to make sure that, for example, a veteran has to have a face‑to‑face consultation with a prescribing GP before they're able to access those sorts of medications, making sure that those programs operate to the benefit of the veteran. 

In terms of what the cost to the system is, I don't have a number that is sort of ‑ that goes to your direct question, but we are seeing is over ‑ about 7,000 different providers to the veteran community that we're, you know, having to obviously pay on a very regular basis for the great work that they do to support our veterans. 

There's a much smaller number that have been doing the wrong thing and that we've had to deal with through whether it's manual processing or serving notices, or maybe subject to investigation. And part of that is we see, because of the disproportionate amount that those small number of providers have been charging to DVA, which reflects issues that we're now looking into more about making sure that, well, are they actually providing the right services and the type of services and things like that. 

So I don't have a specific number in terms of how much wouldn't have been paid out necessarily, but I think what's really important to remember is there's a reason that fraud is a crime, and where people are doing the wrong thing, where people commit crimes by defrauding the Commonwealth, then that will be dealt with appropriately. And understandably as well, I think, you know, people ‑ we have a great system where whether it's through DVA or Medicare, you know, you can use your Medicare card at a doctor, you can use your DVA card. For that system to work quickly and not get in the way of people accessing services, we rely on being able to trust medical professionals to do the right thing. 

PICKERING: Absolutely. I'm speaking with Matt Keogh, Minister for Veterans' Affairs. Matt, as I mentioned, you know, that side that we saw on Four Corners is just one issue confronting those who come, return from service; they're re‑entering civilian life. We've been focussing a lot on connection. 

KEOGH: Yeah. 

PICKERING: And difficulties, particularly younger veterans, have finding a connection. What does the Government do to make that re‑entry into civilian life better and to help them connect? 

KEOGH: Yeah, the loneliness issue is where we see some of the highest risk for veterans. Veterans where they leave Defence and don't have a community to go back into that can wrap around them, or they do but then, you know, a year, a few years down the track they find themselves isolated, maybe because of family breakdown or what have you. 

One of the changes we have made, for example, is for veterans that are undergoing a DVA rehab program. We provide funding for what we call psychosocial support, so that's being able to engage in things like horse therapy or surfing therapy or other areas that bring them together with other veterans, being able to form community, to make sure they've got someone to talk to, to engage with regularly. That’s an incredibly important thing in the veteran community, and of course we've got many veteran organisations, you know, whether it's RSLs, whether it's previously been the Vietnam Veterans' Association, lots of ex‑service organisations that do this informally and formally with their veteran community. 

PICKERING: You are at the RSL today talking with, you know, are people happy with those services? What's the feedback you've had from our vets about that? 

KEOGH: Yeah, certainly it was something we discussed today, just how important that informal connection point, as well as formal programs, can be. But we do know that, with our contemporary veteran cohort, sometimes they don't necessarily see RSLs as places that they want to go to do that. RSLs also recognising that. I've been to an RSL in Victoria where they've put in computer gaming, for example. 

Places like Coburg that I've been out to, the Hawthorn RSL, you know, are now being run by contemporary veterans running programs more designed for contemporary veterans to give them a place that they feel safe, happy, connected, able to engage. That's incredibly important. 

PICKERING: Well, we see that as a really important cause of ours here on Drive. 

KEOGH: M'mm. 

PICKERING: Unfortunately, time's against us right now. I'd love to keep the conversation going though. 

KEOGH: Absolutely. 

PICKERING: There's always issues relating to veterans, but we have to make sure that we give them the best welcome home that we can and keep looking after them. 

KEOGH: Absolutely. 

PICKERING: [Indistinct]. Matt Keogh, Minister for Veterans' Affairs, thank you for your time. 

KEOGH: Nice to be with you.

ENDS