Television Interview, News24

SUBJECT/S: Largest ADF in 25 years; AI; Middle East conflict; Fuel excise and supply; Migration; 

PETER STEFANOVIC, HOST: Recruitment in the Australian Defence Force has risen over the last financial year. More than 8,000 personnel enlisted, taking the total permanent and full-time workforce to more than 64,000. That's the largest it's been in 25 years, according to government numbers. Joining us live now, the Defence Minister, Richard Marles. Minister, good to see you this morning. So, what's that rise down to?

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, firstly, it is a very significant achievement. As you said, it's the largest defence force we've now operated in a quarter of a century, and recruiting 8,100 people in a year is the largest intake in 16 years. And when we came to government, the Defence Force was shrinking. In the last year of the Coalition government, that actually shrank by 1,400 people. So, it is a big turnaround. This is a function of government policy. Like we are recruiting much smarter. We are doing our advertisements where young people actually are online. So, we're doing less on TV, but more online, very much targeting young people where they are. We've had a number of innovative practices such as pop-up recruitment centres, which have proved to be really important and effective. What we've also done though is that the recruitment time frame, that is the time from when you seek to join the ADF to when you're putting on a uniform. To be clear, it is still too long, but we have brought that down significantly since coming to government and, and particularly in areas where we really need people, in trades where there are gaps. So, we're pulling people through that process faster. And at the other end, yes, so at the other end we have, we've brought the separation rate down and that's exactly right. We've got continuation bonuses in place, encouraging people to stay on. We've got increases in pay across the Defence Force and again in areas where we have particular need, we've had significant jumps in, in the pay rates. The employment offer in the ADF is much better and so it's a place to work.

STEFANOVIC: So, how, how do those numbers, Minister, affect or even change your longer-term targets? Now, has that been adjusted?

MARLES: Well, no, because we needed to do this to actually increase our numbers significantly to get to those targets. And to be clear, you know, we still have a way to go. And that's why, for example, the recruitment that we've talked about from Five Eyes countries, from our neighbours in the Pacific, I think that's going to play an important part over the coming decade. I mean that's a longer-term project. But this is a really important step down the path and what it shows is that Australians are willing to serve if the defence force can be an attractive place to work. And that's what we've made it be.

STEFANOVIC: Ok. Elsewhere this morning, Matt Canavan just a moment ago said your government is not serious about bringing down migration numbers. Is that why talks between the Government and the Opposition collapsed over migration?

MARLES: Well, let's be really clear. We announced a target for the net overseas migration rate in the budget of 245,000 in the current financial year that we're in, going down to 225,000 the year after that. And we're about meeting that target. And that in turn represents bringing migration numbers down relative to what we inherited from Matt Canavan and the Coalition when we came to government. At that point, migration was too high. We've brought it down by 40% as against the peak that we inherited. And 245,000 in this financial year represents a further reduction and we are intent on meeting that target.

STEFANOVIC: But is that why talks have stopped?

MARLES: Well, I mean we are serious about bringing it down. You know, obviously the question is where the Coalition is at, but ultimately that is a matter for them. But we are going to achieve this target and we will continue down the path of reducing migration. Migration does play a very important part in our economy, obviously in our society, but it needs to be calibrated with what infrastructure, what services we have. What we inherited when we came to government was too high and so we are bringing it down.

STEFANOVIC: But would you be taking the One Nation approach to cut the amount of international students or temporary migrants or family members? I mean, is there anything in One Nation's policy that you've got your eye on?

MARLES: Well, we have actually already taken measures in respect of international students. So, that's been one of the key steps that we've taken to bring migration rates down. But let's be clear about One Nation. I mean the sort of numbers that they are talking about would have a massive impact on our economy. We'd be talking about closing regional universities, doctors in the regions. That would be a real challenge. Farmers would be crying out in terms of having the workforce they need to harvest their crops. Nursing homes would not have enough nurses. We would see closures of them in a context where we have an ageing population. If One Nation want to walk down that path, they really do need to have the honesty to say that what their policy is about is closing nursing homes, closing regional universities, making it much harder for farmers to do their job, if not making it impossible. And we do not support that.

STEFANOVIC: Is there any beef behind the scenes between Tony Burke and Jim Chalmers over your policy? Is that why it hasn't been properly released yet?

MARLES: No. Well, as I say, the target that we are seeking to pursue has been there since the budget. It was, I mean, the headline of our policy, if you like, was the details in –

STEFANOVIC: The extra details haven't been unveiled by the Minister yet?

MARLES: Well, I mean, we've already taken a whole lot of steps down the path of, of achieving that 245. And we mentioned students as being one of them –

STEFANOVIC: Jim Chalmers got no problem?

MARLES: I mean, we are all working very closely together to achieve this outcome, which is a sensible outcome, a calibrated outcome, given what our economy needs on one hand, but making sure that it's a migration rate that we can cope with.

STEFANOVIC: Let's get to AI. It's a big topic this week. Minister, OpenAI has now threatened to cut investment in Australia, whether it's AI training or renewable energy, if your government refuses to water down copyright laws. What do you make of that sort of language?

MARLES: Well, I've seen what's been said. I think that's overstating, actually, the comments that have been made. Look, I was in San Francisco the week before last. I met with Sam Altman, I met with Dario Amodei at Anthropic. There is a real opportunity here in terms of AI training in Australia. There's real opportunity in terms of investment in data centres in Australia. It's not new that there are challenges in respect of copyright which have been raised by those companies. All of this was articulated by the Prime Minister in his speech in July. We do want to see our country take this opportunity. It's a historic opportunity for our nation, but we need to be doing it in a way which protects rights holders. And that means news organisations, it means creatives. But actually I think you can do both. And this is the point I really want to make. I mean, having now had the conversations with the tech companies as well as news organisations and the like in Australia, I think this is possible to do and we need to be doing our best to achieve that.

STEFANOVIC: So, what do you make of that kind of language, though? I mean, threatening kind of dialogue for someone who wants to set up here?

MARLES: Well, I actually don't think it's at the level that you've described it. I mean, I think the person in question was making the point that copyright is an issue which needs to be looked at in the context of OpenAI doing training in Australia. That's not news. We've understood that for a while. That's the issue that we are working through with them, but doing so in a way which is in our national interest and does protect rights holders and as I say, in talking with news organisations here, for example, and that they're a key rights holder in Australia. Yep. I do feel as though we are actually able to achieve this, but this is a historic opportunity for our country, not just economically, although it is very much a massive economic opportunity, but also in terms of our sovereignty and our national security. To be in a position where we can be a part of this really represents one of the most significant sovereignty opportunities that Australia has ever had.

STEFANOVIC: Just one more, Minister. I know you've got to go. I got to go as well. But plenty of talk around cuts to fuel excise again, oil nearing $110 US a barrel. Have you or your government got any plans to revisit the fuel excise and cut it?

MARLES: Look, we don't have plans for that, Pete. I mean –

STEFANOVIC: But that could change?

MARLES: Look, we don't have plans for again, we're all watching. We are watching what's playing out in the Middle East, clearly. I mean, there is literally news every day and I think it's important to take a step back and to just get a sense of what this is going, how this is playing out over a slightly longer term, our focus has been in respect of ensuring fuel supply in Australia and we've been able to do that from the moment that this conflict broke out.

STEFANOVIC: Defence Minister Richard Marles, thanks as always for your time. Appreciate it.

ENDS