Television Interview, ABC 730

SUBJECT/S: AI; AUKUS; Defence Spending; Australia-US Defence Relationship; 

HOST, JACOB GREBER: Richard Marles, welcome to 730.

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, RICHARD MARLES: Good evening.

GREBER: So the Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei who you met quite recently, wants governments to slow down on the AI revolution. Donald Trump reckons these AI safety fears are all a big hoax, and what the world needs instead is a smart, high-IQ president for protection. Is that a responsible approach?

MARLES: Well, look, I actually take comfort in Dario Amodei's essay and the call that he's made, which, as I've read it, is as much in respect of the frontier companies themselves in terms of how they are developing this technology. And it's firstly not about putting this, stopping this all together, but rather making sure that the development of the safeguards that are in place in respect of this technology is in front of the technological capability itself, and that all makes sense. But the other point that Dario really made is that this will, from our perspective, still look like the technology is being developed very quickly, and I think that's our fundamental posture. From an Australian point of view, our focus is making sure that, in seeing this as a revolutionary technology which can be doing so much good in Australia, that we do have in place AI standards, that we do have in place AI safeguards in Australia, which make sure that this is a technology which is benefiting Australians and not the other way around.

GREBER: So the ABC today has reported documents that show the government is considering some approaches around this issue of copyright, and that is a big deal. We're told for these tech companies they want that resolved before they'll invest in Australia. When are you going to make that decision about how you treat Australian content?

MARLES: Well, we are working at a pace here. The first point to make is that the opportunity for Australia economically is enormous in collaborating with frontier companies, but other tech companies in terms of the development of this technology and having frontier training occur in Australia. While we want to see this opportunity come to the country, it needs to come on terms which are in our national interest. And for what it's worth, having spoken with news organisations on the one hand, having spoken with the tech companies in San Francisco the week before last, on the other, I actually think this can be done. But this is a very significant moment for the country in that sense. And I'll also say, you know, an aspect of this which we don't talk enough about, which is what this represents as an opportunity for us in terms of that sovereignty and national security is critically important as well. 

GREBER: So I want to move to AUKUS. Its five years since that deal was signed, but we're getting reports out of the UK that the new Andy Burnham government is delaying its decision about purchasing these boats by two years to 2028. How confident are you that the UK is still on board, delivering its end of the deal? 

MARLES: We are confident. I mean, there's no change in terms of the position that the UK has made. The ultimate number of submarines that they end up purchasing is not the key issue here. The key issue is the development of the design, the pace of that, which is happening. The UK is on track to cut steel in respect of its first SSN-AUKUS submarine next year. It's on track to have that submarine come off the production line at Barrow-in-Furness in the UK in the late 2030s that that's perfect timing in respect of what we're doing. Obviously, we are a part of that design process, but our timeline is to have the first SSN-AUKUS submarine roll off the submarine- roll off the production line in Adelaide in the early 2040s. All of that is in place. All of those commitments are there, and all of the milestones that we are seeking to meet, we are meeting on time. 

GREBER: Sure, but the British Prime Minister has also told Parliament that national security must not come at the expense of social security, and he's refusing to make the sort of commitment you made to spend a certain amount of GDP on defence, surely these are- these developments are raising red flags for you?

MARLES: Well, they're not. I mean, obviously the amount of- the amount of defence spending that the UK does is a matter for the United Kingdom. But in respect of their spending on AUKUS, we are really comfortable with what is happening there. There's a high degree of trust and transparency between us, and in terms of meeting those key milestones in respect of the design and soon to be construction of the SSN-AUKUS submarines. That's all on track. 

GREBER: Okay, I also want to ask you about what's going on with the U.S. Two weeks ago, you were in Washington, and you indicated that the U.S. wants to expand its military presence in Australia. What does that look like? What are we talking about here? 

MARLES: Yeah, well, what we're talking about is making more complex and broadening the existing force posture arrangements, which are which are already going on in Australia, and we will have more to say about that at this year's AUSMIN- 

GREBER: But what is that? Is that more people? Is it more kit? Is it rockets?

MARLES: Well, it's not so much people because the big issue in respect of people in terms of American force posture in Australia really is the Marines in Darwin and what will be Submarine Rotation Force-West at HMAS Stirling, and all of that is has been announced some time ago. Now this is more about the kind of functions that we're engaging in and the complexity of that. We have seen a broad development in relation to the way in which America is operating on the Australian continent, and you see that over successive AUSMINSs, and this AUSMIN will look at how that is progressing. I mean, you are seeing, for example, with the marine rotation Ospreys, which are the aircraft that the Marines use, a number of them are now staying in Australia, over our summer, but the period when the rotation is not in place. So its issues like that which make it more functional, which broaden the complexity of the way in which we are cooperating together. And as I say, we'll talk more about that when we have AUSMIN later in the year. But it has been, you know, it’s part of a progression that we've been on since we've come to government in terms of working more closely with the United States across every domain, across every service. 

GREBER: But this is how it sort of works for the public, isn't it? We get told of these progressions. We sometimes have to ask a lot of questions, and we find out there's new things being developed. Are you still confident that Australians will welcome more American involvement? 

MARLES: Well, firstly, we're enormously transparent about the decisions that we take. But secondly, and perhaps most importantly, every decision that we take in respect of American force posture, but for that matter, the force posture of any foreign country in Australia, is in accordance with strict sovereignty rules that we have in place, which provide for full knowledge and concurrence, that means that we are always aware of exactly what activities are being undertaken by foreign defence forces on Australian soil. And that those activities are only taken with the consent of the Australian government, and therefore are in the national interests of Australia. Now that’s the case in respect of-

GREBER: With the consent of the Australian government?

MARLES: Of course, with the consent of the Australian government, that's at the heart of our full knowledge and consent [concurrence] processes that we have in place. That in fact we made-

GREBER: I thought it was full knowledge and concurrence.

MARLES: Well, full knowledge and concurrence, sorry, that we have in place and that we have made it more robust since we've come to government. But it absolutely requires the consent of the Australian government in respect of all the functions that are undertaken by any foreign military that occur- that operates in Australia, and that very much includes the United States. And all of that has been deepened and augmented since we've come to government. 

GREBER: We'll have to leave it there. We're out of time. Richard Marles, thanks very much for talking to us. 

MARLES: Thanks for having me.

ENDS