Radio interview, ABC Newcastle

SUBJECTS: Drone activity at Newcastle Airport; AUKUS. 

JENNY MARCHANT, HOST:  Reports of drones flying over Williamtown RAAF Base might have caught your attention today. The Daily Telegraph was reporting that this happened over a couple of days last month. Defence has said to us it's aware of reports of uncrewed aircraft systems operating in the vicinity of Newcastle Airport and RAAF Base Williamtown. 

That comes alongside another Defence-related issue getting attention in Newcastle today, a crowd‑funded citizen‑based inquiry into the AUKUS agreement. 

Pat Conroy is with you now, the member for Shortland and Minister for Defence Industry. Good afternoon, Minister. 

PAT CONROY, MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY: G'day, Jenny. How are you? 

MARCHANT:  Well, thank you. If we could start with this issue at Williamtown. What have you been told about these drones over the RAAF Base and the airport? 

CONROY: Well, I've been obviously briefed along the lines that you've been reporting, that over a couple of days last month we had some UAS activity over the airport. 

Obviously, I had two meetings with the CEO from Newcastle Airport last week, and this came up in my conversation with him as well. 

So this is sadly something we're seeing more often, people operating drones near airports, both civilian and military airports, and it's not something that people should be doing. Like from a basic common-sense point of view, anything that has the ability to interrupt air operations or endanger lives is very silly and people shouldn't be doing it. 

MARCHANT: How many drones have been over the airport and the RAAF Base? 

CONROY: Oh, look, I'm not going to go into those details on radio. I think the broad media reporting have been accurate about the sort of, the number and the days, but I don't think it serves any purpose to get more specific than that at this stage. 

MARCHANT:  Did they interrupt operations, either from RAAF or the civilian airport? 

CONROY: Again, I'm not going to get into that either, Jenny. The important thing for your listeners to know is that we have robust layered security measures to protect our personnel, our bases and our capabilities. So that's the situation as it is, but it's important that we take strong actions in this area and we are. 

So, for example, last year we changed the Defence Regulations so that Defence personnel can seize, disable or destroy drones. Would you believe that until we took action last year Defence did not have that ability? So that's an important measure that this Government has undertaken. 

Also, we're investing $7 billion in drone defences, in the technology to detect and disable drones as well. So we've changed the law so that we can take action and we're equipping the Australian Defence Force with that capability. 

And we've also established a standing panel so that other government agencies can also invest in this capability to protect national assets, including State Governments. So, for example, I've said publicly that those services are available for the Queensland Government to protect the 2032 Olympics, for example. 

MARCHANT:  M'hmm. Was action taken when these drones were over RAAF Base Williamtown and the airport? Was action taken to stop them from being in restricted airspace? 

CONROY: Well again I'm going to sound like a broken record, but I'm not going to get into those specific details for operational security reasons. So obviously the more information I put out there about how we responded, the more information that's out there for people who might not have the well intentions of the public at their heart. 

So that's why I have to be circumspect. 

MARCHANT:  I understand. 

CONROY: I know it's frustrating for you and your listeners, but I have to follow that advice. 

MARCHANT:  I understand. But the appearance as it stands now is that there were drones over the airport and the RAAF Base, and that that in itself exposes a vulnerability at our base. Is our base vulnerable here? Are there anti‑drone measures and procedures that can be activated at a time like this? 

CONROY: Well, the answer to that is yes, they are. And that's why I've said we've got robust layered security measures to handle these sorts of contingencies, and we're strengthening them through that $7 billion investment. So I want to assure your listeners that we do have layers of security measures to protect our Defence personnel, and the base itself and the capabilities that are housed there. 

But obviously this is something that sadly we're going to see more and more as drones become more affordable to people. People can buy them from shops, and we have to be very conscious of that and take appropriate actions, and that's why we're investing in that. It's something that no other government has done. 

MARCHANT:  Yes, understood. 

CONROY: We're the first government to change the law and invest billions of dollars in drone defences. 

MARCHANT:  So just to be clear, there are measures that can be taken, but you cannot tell us whether or not that happened at Williamtown in this instance? 

CONROY: Yes, I'm not going to get into detail ‑ the specifics of what occurred because that would not be consistent with operational security. 

MARCHANT:  M'hmm. Are there continuing investigations, is there more happening in this space with reference to what happened at Williamtown? 

CONROY: Oh, I'm advised that the New South Wales Police Force conducted an investigation which is now complete. 

MARCHANT:  Okay. Pat Conroy is with me, the Minister for Defence Industry and the member for Shortland. It's 13 past 4 on 1233 Drive. Minister, tomorrow we see a citizen's inquiry into the AUKUS agreement in Newcastle. That agreement's been criticised by Australians from a range of backgrounds, even those in the Labor movement. Should there be a Government inquiry into this to let those issues and questions be aired and answered? 

CONROY: Well we've had a government examination of AUKUS; that was the Defence Strategic Review that was conducted by Stephen Smith and Sir Angus Houston when we came to Government, and the DSR recommended that we continue with AUKUS and that it was in the national interest. 

MARCHANT:  An inquiry that allows members of the public though to have their say, make submissions? 

CONROY: There was an element of ‑ my understanding is there was an element of submissions being invited for the DSR process. I'm happy to be corrected, but that was my advice. And ultimately this has been tested at a number of elections where people have stood on both a pro‑AUKUS and an anti‑AUKUS platform, and as a consequence of that the Australian people have voiced their support for AUKUS through the election of the Labor Government, who stood very clearly on a commitment to continuing with AUKUS. So, this ‑‑ 

MARCHANT: Things have changed though, haven't they, since the election? It was announced in June, for instance, that we'd buy three second-hand subs rather than two second-hand and one new. Just things change. Global factors change too, and Australians may have new views on our military ties. If there is significant concern, as it appears there is through this process happening through a crowd‑funded inquiry, why not have a government public inquiry so that people can talk it out? 

CONROY: Well, let me respond to what you put there. Yes, we're now receiving three in‑service Virginia‑class submarines rather than two in service. But that's what we asked for in the first place. It was actually a change that Australia asked for because it's in our interest to have three submarines of the same type, three submarines that have gone through their first depot level maintenance and were running at peak efficiency. So this is a change that was in our interest and one we were very happy to occur. 

This is in the national interest, and it will make Australia safer and stronger, as well as creating 20,000 well‑paid, high secure jobs, giving the Royal Australian Navy the best possible capability to deter conflict in our region and promote peace. 

Now this so‑called public inquiry is being run by the Australia Institute, which is a mouthpiece for the Australian Greens political party. And that's fine, they're entitled to their opinions. But they've already made their views well and truly clear. They are anti‑AUKUS, they're anti‑defending our nation. That's their democratic right. 

But let's not pretend that this is some neutral independent inquiry. It's been rigged from the start. And that's fine. But let's be honest about that. 

MARCHANT:  Minister Conroy, is Newcastle still under consideration to house the nuclear submarine fleet? 

CONROY: Well again, this is again something that people have been running on, arguing it's a short‑list of possible East Coast base options. We've made it very clear that we scrapped the short‑list that the Morrison Government came up with and we're going back to base principles to really examine what is the best possible location for a future East Coast base. 

MARCHANT:  Does it include Newcastle? 

CONROY: Well, it includes an examination of the entire East Coast, so Newcastle's obviously on the East Coast, but we're not looking at this process until the end of the decade. Our priorities are on building the submarine construction yard in Adelaide to construct our submarines, and the upgrades to HMAS Stirling on the West Coast that will be the main submarine base. 

But this is a project that's in our national interest. It will modernise Australian manufacturing. It will create 20,000 jobs and give the Royal Australian Navy the best possible capability. 

MARCHANT:  You ‑‑ 

CONROY: And in terms of public support, Jenny, I should just make the point that the latest Lowy poll of public opinion, and which polls tens of thousands of people, found that there was actually an increase in support for acquiring nuclear-powered submarines. I think it went up to something like 68 per cent of Australians support this. 

MARCHANT: M'hmm. I'm happy to hear those views on our text line, 0487 991 233. So, a decision to be made later in the decade, although, Minister, it's 2026 and time flies, when will we know that decision? Four years to go till the end of the decade. 

CONROY: Well that's when we'll look at the process. This is something that will come further down the track. What our main focus on is building the submarines and upgrading the Naval base in Western Australia that will house them. 

So again, there'll be plenty of opportunity for people to understand the process and understand what are the key factors there. But again, this level of scaremongering about what could happen in decades to come, distracts from what the core point of AUKUS. 

MARCHANT:  Well maybe ‑‑ 

CONROY: The core point of AUKUS is a technology sharing arrangement so that we can build the most advanced submarines in the world to help defend this country and create 20,000 jobs. 

MARCHANT:  Maybe you can, you know, help dispel some of that scaremongering then, as you described it, and let the people of Newcastle know what kind of consultation or discussions would happen with them through this process of deciding where the submarine base should go, and if indeed there was any kind of detailed investigation into Newcastle, what kind of consultation and discussions would there be with a community and would the community need to agree to that for it to happen? 

CONROY: Well, we'll go through that process when we're up to it, but we're not making any decisions. We haven't even begun that process at the level you're talking about at this stage. Our main focus is those other two measures. Obviously, as we get closer to making a decision, we will start engaging with the community, which is what you'd expect and hope elected representatives do, but I just think people need to understand that there's an orderly process for building the submarines and houses them in WA. An East Coast base is not the priority at the moment. And people should remember that we've had a strong defence presence in our region already, proudly from before World War II but obviously during World War II. I meet plenty of people, both in the Australian Defence Force and in the Hunter Defence Industry, who are proud of the contribution we make to the nation, and we'll just deal with this measure in an orderly Cabinet process, which is what this Government does. 

MARCHANT: Minister, I'll let you go shortly but to conclude, we know that the US is behind in its submarine building program and the US, you know, doesn't necessarily need to sell Australia any submarines if they need them for their own fleet. Are you confident that AUKUS will actually deliver submarines to Australia as planned? 

CONROY: Well let me make a couple of points. First, in the latest testimony to Congress the Chief of Naval Operations, the chief of the Navy, said they were on track to reaching their production rates they need to nearly 2030 is to transfer Virginia‑class submarines to Australia. I was in South Carolina inspecting a new factory that will add 1.5 million labour hours to submarine production each year. So they are investing massively to increase their production rates, so I am confident that we will acquire those in‑service Virginias. 

But that's the interim measure. The long‑term measure is us building our own submarines in Adelaide, building SSN‑AUKUS which will be the most advanced nuclear-powered but conventionally armed submarines in the world. That's the process that will create 20,000 jobs and that will equip the Royal Australian Navy with the best possible submarines to deter conflict and promote peace in our region. 

And I'm fighting every day to make sure that we get the maximum jobs and technology transfer out of that, including for Hunter businesses. Hunter businesses helped build the Collins‑class submarines, they helped build the Air Wolf for destroyers, they're helping build the Hunter Class frigates right now. And Hunter workers and Hunter businesses want to get into this high-tech area and I'm supporting that 100 per cent. 

MARCHANT: Understood. Minister, thanks very much. I hope we can talk again soon. 

CONROY: Any time, thanks Jenny.

MARCHANT:  Thank you. Pat Conroy is the member for Shortland and the Minister for Defence.

ENDS