Radio Interview, ABC Sydney Mornings

SUBJECTS: Victoria Barracks Sydney, Fitzroy Community School, Gambling Reform 

HAMISH MACDONALD [HOST]: Now, in some new news, Defence will open the Victoria Barracks in Paddington to the public next month with a family night of music, lights and food, ‘Beats at the Barracks’. It is a ticketed event set to be held on Saturday 12 September. Of course, interesting context here, because the Federal Government has decided to divest the property along with over 60 other Defence sites across the country. The Paddington location obviously proving particularly controversial. Peter Khalil is the Assistant Minister for Defence, very good morning to you.

PETER KHALIL [ASSISTANT MINISTER]: Morning, Hamish. You just made my announcement. You did it better than me, I would say.

MACDONALD: I mean, does this show us that you recognise how important this facility is to the public here in Sydney?

KHALIL: Absolutely. And I think one of the things about the divestment reform, by the way, it's a reform that for decades both sides of politics have been unable and unwilling or not having the political will to make these decisions to consolidate and make sure the defence estate is fit for purpose. We're talking about an estate that's 3.8 million hectares. It's the largest land holding in Australia. Many sites, over a dozen sites, were basically not being used or underutilised, or had beautiful sites like Paddington, which were not fit for purpose – historically important, but not for a modern ADF. And so, part of this divestment reform is to open up and give access to the public to these beautiful sites. Often, they're in the middle of our cities as well.

MACDONALD: But if you can throw a party there, doesn't it mean you can do that under the current arrangements.

KHALIL: What do you mean by that? Actually, this event is the first of a number of events to basically open up the site, even though it's still in transition.

MACDONALD: But I suppose that's the point of my question. If you're saying the point of selling them is to open up to the public, if you can hold a party there on the 12th September, doesn't that demonstrate that you can already do that?

KHALIL: Well, it's a controlled event, obviously, because there's still personnel on the site. We're opening up the site for a short period of time and making those arrangements. You mentioned the ‘Beats at the Barracks’. The army band, which is based there, the Australian Army Band Sydney will be playing. There'll be light displays of the historic architecture and hospitality and so on, and the proceeds are going to go to a very good charity, Soldier On. So, we're talking to the City of Sydney about a number of these events going forward during the transitional period. Just explain for the context of listeners that we announced 67 sites to be divested. The Paddington site is one of those. It takes some time to transition personnel off there. We've put together a history and heritage plan to protect the features in the buildings that have Commonwealth-listed heritage protections for any future proponent use of that site. But while we're doing all of that, we think it's a really good idea that the public sees this amazing history because some of the accessibility is really limited. The Army Museum that's there, which is quite remarkable collection, is open one Sunday, every third Sunday a month and once every fortnight. So it's limited access, and we're trying to open that up to the public.

MACDONALD: Obviously you'd be aware of how much opposition there is to this decision.

KHALIL: Yes, and there has been some misinformation that's been bandied about.

MACDONALD: What's the misinformation?

KHALIL: Well, I've heard people saying that we're going to go and developers are going to come in and bulldoze heritage buildings and destroy, you know, 100-year-old buildings. That is, it could not be further from the truth. In fact, many of the sites like Paddington or Victoria Barracks in Melbourne, have these important historical features and buildings that go back into our nation's military history are not only going to be protected under the heritage listings and the heritage plan, but they're going to be opened up for the public to finally see. Like the Victoria Barracks in Melbourne, the Cabinet Rooms where John Curtin, the Prime Minister during World War Two, met with the Cabinet, made consequential decisions about Australia's future. They are in pristine condition like they were in 1944, but no one can see them. And so that is, I think, an opportunity wasted.

MACDONALD: But do you understand why people are a bit cynical about these sorts of promises? Like just across the road there in Paddington, beautiful old pub, redevelopment application, and then suddenly it's reported in the newspaper that, lo and behold, they've actually knocked out all of the important historical bits of it and said that, you know, it was just part of the building process and we couldn't save that stuff. Can you understand why the public might be a little cynical hearing you say, oh no, no, nothing to see here, it'll all be protected?

KHALIL: Well, I never said nothing to see here, I said the opposite. There's a lot to see here, a lot to actually engage with and enjoy. The ‘Beats at the Barracks’ will be one of the first events to give people a demonstration of what this could be into the future, the kind of engagement they can have with this site. But I understand there’s cynicism Hamish, I mean, there's cynicism right throughout our political system and our society. We know that much of that is exacerbated by, for another conversation, but social media and the algorithms and all the rest of it. So, when people say things straight up, there's a fair bit of cynicism and distrust. But I think for listeners, I can say that the Paddington site has 12 buildings that are under Commonwealth-listed heritage protection under law. The entire site is actually one whole, the whole site is under the Commonwealth Heritage Act, as well as the wall and the perimeter. That can't be touched. Anything that it's used for in the future and there are many different options that we're working through and the Department of Finance will work through before it's a final proponent is determined those protections are paramount, and they are part of the heritage plan history plan that we're putting in place under Commonwealth heritage listings. We've got obligations under the Environment Protection Act as well, which we're doing, and we've got obligations to transition personnel, which takes a period of time. But while that is happening, we think that it's a really good thing to be able to open up, working with the City of Sydney, open up the Paddington site so the public can engage with it. I mean, most people haven't been in there, haven't seen it. Maybe there's been some, as I said, that museums open once every third Sunday, but most people haven't been in there to see this amazing history. And it is a remarkable history.

MACDONALD: It's four minutes to nine on 702 Mornings. Peter Khalil is here, the Assistant Defence Minister. I should let you know that the State Health Minister, Ryan Park, will be here just after the news at 9 o'clock regarding these warnings to stay away from the emergency departments unless you really need to be there at the moment because of the pressure on the system this winter. Peter, a question about your own electorate in Victoria. The ABC has uncovered multiple allegations of child sexual abuse and grooming at the Fitzroy Community School in Melbourne. You're the local member for Wills. In your view, is this school a safe place for children?

KHALIL: Oh, these are really serious and distressing allegations, these current allegations. And, you know, I think the safety, I mean, anyone in the community would agree that the safety of children should be the first priority of all schools, when kids go to school. I note that there are a number of regulatory processes being conducted by the authorities and the police are also making enquiries.

MACDONALD: But there's been decades of complaints, according to these ABC revelations. Have the regulators dropped the ball?

KHALIL: Well, I think the regulators and the police are currently making enquiries. I think that process is underway and that should be, that's the correct thing to do. They really need to engage with those allegations and investigate them, and that's what they're doing currently. I don't think it's appropriate to comment further about their investigation.

MACDONALD: We've got a minute to go before the news. We've all been watching this Senate inquiry looking at gambling, the testimony of Luke Bateman, reports of the betting companies, you know, luring people in, using things like prostitutes and drugs. Did that shock you?

KHALIL: Yes and no. I used to work at SBS, and one of the things I did was to really push hard to get rid of gambling advertising during the A-League soccer games, half-time and before the game, because it was early in the night and kids would see that.

MACDONALD. So, you're doing that now that you're in politics as well?

KHALIL: I am a fierce advocate for pushing these reforms as far as they can go.

HAMISH MACDONALD: Have you been disappointed with your own Government's record on this?

KHALIL: Well, Peta Murphy was a friend of mine, and I think she did amazing work in that inquiry. I'll continue to advocate for the strongest reforms possible.

MACDONALD: Sounds like you're not that happy with the government's record.

KHALIL: Well, you know how this works, that we are working on the legislation. There are inquiries, there are committees and so on. We all engage in that. The caucus engages in that and that is as it should be in a democracy. I'll be making my arguments about the reforms. You know, we can't get into the details here, but I think that it's good that there are voices in the Parliament. That's the parliamentary process, and I'll be pushing hard for the best possible reforms going forward.

MACDONALD: Peter Khalil, thanks for your time this morning.

KHALIL: Thank you.

ENDS