Radio Interview, 2GB - Ben Fordham Live

SUBJECTS: Victoria Barracks Sydney; Defence Estate Audit; Iranian Embassy; Housing; ABC; Afghanistan Inquiry. 

BEN FORDHAM, HOST: The fight to save Victoria Barracks continues. The iconic military site is set to be sold off by the Federal Government alongside 66 other Defence properties. It's hoped $1.8 billion will be generated from the sales. The move has sparked a lot of outrage and now a former MP has stepped forward with a new idea. Peter King is calling for Victoria Barracks to be granted global heritage status by UNESCO. He's penned a letter to the Albanese Government calling on them to take action. I'm not sure that they're gonna want to take action on this because they wanna sell the joint, but the former federal MP Peter King says the Barracks has retained a remarkable degree of integrity and it constitutes the most complete surviving example of an early Victorian imperial barracks in Australia. The proposal has serious merit. Well, let's find out from the bloke who's running the country at the moment. Richard Marles is the Acting Prime Minister. He's live in the studio. Richard Marles, good morning to you.

RICHARD MARLES, ACTING PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Ben. How are you?

FORDHAM: Good. Nice to see you. Where is the Prime Minister? He's having a break, is he?

MARLES: He's having a break. A well-earned break.

FORDHAM: He probably deserves one after a long time working. Is he local, is he overseas? Or do we not talk about those things?

MARLES: We don't talk about it, but I can say he's in Australia. 

FORDHAM: He's local, ok. 

MARLES: Yep. 

FORDHAM: Okay. Should Victoria Barracks be granted UNESCO heritage status?

MARLES: Well look, Victoria Barracks is a unique heritage site. I mean, I think it's an interesting proposal and, you know, part of what we are focused on is trying to have more people be given access to Victoria Barracks Sydney. I mean, one of the things that I think is confusing people in terms of what's going on here is Victoria Barrack Sydney right now is protected by law in terms of its heritage values. So there's no prospect here of anything being bulldozed or being rid of. In fact, right now, Defence, which is not a heritage organisation, is an organisation not well placed to maintain the heritage value of Victoria Barracks Sydney. And I think what we're talking about will see many more people be able to access it and for the heritage values of Victoria Barracks Sydney to be better protected and better amplified.

FORDHAM: Ok. The former prime minister Tony Abbott's against the idea of selling it. The independent MP Allegra Spender doesn't want it to happen. The state Labor MP Marjorie O’Neill has been vocal and is against it. So you've even got people within the Labor Party saying don't do it, don't sell it, it's an important part of our history. 

MARLES: Well where people are– I guess the disconnect here is I accept that it's an important part of the history, which is exactly why the heritage value of this should be enhanced more than what the Defence Force can do. The simple point I would make is if you see this as having great heritage value, and we do, why would you choose the Australian Defence Force as the manager of this when we are obviously not a heritage organisation? I mean, literally every dollar that is required to maintain Victoria Barracks Sydney is being contested with providing more capability for Australia's Defence Force. I mean, you couldn't think of an organisation less suited to being able to maintain the heritage value of Victoria Barracks Sydney. And to give you some context here, Ben, $50 million is what's been spent over the last five years by defence in terms of maintaining this. It's estimated another $200 million would be required to maintain it over the next 10 [years] and that's to have it maintain the security which is required for a Defence base. We don't need it as a Defence base.

FORDHAM: Ok, so regardless of what happens in the future with Victoria Barracks, those important heritage components there at the barracks, they'll be kept?

MARLES: They’ll be totally kept and more than that, they will be more accessible to Sydneysiders and to Australians. I mean, at Victoria Barracks Sydney is the oldest wine cellar in Australia. I mean, that is great and it's good for people to have a look at. It's not core business for the Australian Defence Force to maintain that. I mean, our core business is defending Australia and making sure that we’re giving arms and ammunition to our soldiers, sailors and aviators. It's not about maintaining an old wine cellar. And most members of the Australian Army itself have never been to Victoria Barracks Sydney. Now, it is an incredible site. I'm going there later this morning. It should be opened up to Sydneysiders and Australians for people to enjoy. It should have many more people through it. If you think about The Rocks, for example, and it's a similar vintage, I mean The Rocks is a great heritage part of Sydney and part of why it works is because there are people there all the time.

FORDHAM: People visit every weekend. You're saying you want to do the same thing with Victoria Barracks?

MARLES: I think open it up. But people are in The Rocks every day – living there, shops, restaurants, pubs. None of that– Victoria Barracks, I don't know if you've ever been to Victoria Barracks Sydney– 

FORDHAM: I have.

MARLES: Well, most people have not and most Sydneysiders have not.

FORDHAM: No, I've only been there when I've been invited there to host something for Defence and then you know, you've got a select number of people who are there. Let me move on to something else– 

MARLES: But it's an incredible site though.

FORDHAM: I should mention as well, a family friendly event is going to be announced today–

MARLES: Yes. 

FORDHAM: –for Victoria Barracks on Saturday 12th September raising funds for Soldier On. Away from that issue, the Coalition and crossbench MPs want Iran's embassy to be shut down in Canberra. It follows reports the Iranian regime executed a 20 year old for joining protests earlier this year. I know we've booted out the ambassador but should we be closing the doors?

MARLES: Well, there's a small presence there. As you say, we have expelled the ambassador, we've done more in terms of putting sanctions on Iran's organisations and individuals. Around 220 different organisations and individuals have been sanctioned by the Government. There's about three officials at the embassy right now. The reality is that there is a very large Iranian Australian community and so, you know, there is services and documents which are provided–

FORDHAM: You're not concerned about their presence in Canberra?

MARLES: Well, we monitor it really closely. It does provide a service to a very significant number of Australians. But to be clear, our Government has done more in terms of sanctioning Iran and doing more in terms of downgrading the diplomatic relations between Australia and Iran than any government has done.

FORDHAM: On real estate, the bottom is falling out the property market in Sydney at the moment. I'm sure similar things are happening in other parts of the country, including where you're from in Victoria. Veteran auctioneers are reporting that sales are being cancelled, buyers aren't turning up and nobody's bidding. Is this what you had in mind when you broke those promises around negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts?

MARLES: Well, with respect Ben, I feel like all of that overstates it. We will still see growth in the housing market over the medium term, it'll be sustainable growth though.

FORDHAM: Why is it dead quiet at the moment? What do you put it down to, the interest rate rises or what?

MARLES: Well, there's a lot of factors which go into people's interest in purchasing houses and interest rate rises are one of them. But I think what we'll see over the longer term is growth in housing, but it'll be sustainable growth.

FORDHAM: You've spooked investors, though, with the negative gearing changes and capital gains tax changes, that's clear.

MARLES: Well, we're getting more first home buyers into homes and that's our focus. And the 5% deposit scheme is about that. But so too is what we're doing in terms of the changes to negative gearing, which gives a much greater equity, generational equity, so that it's not only people of my age who can aspire to the Australian dream of owning a home, but our kids can as well. That's really what our focus here is. And we will see housing continue to grow. I mean, we actually need more houses in this country and so we're doing a lot of work building houses, but that speaks to the fact that we will see property prices continue to grow.

FORDHAM: So, what you want is fewer property investors and more first homebuyers? 

MARLES: We definitely want to see more first homebuyers and that's our focus. You can still invest in property if you're investing in new houses and get the tax break that existed under negative gearing, and that's about trying to promote more homes being built. But fundamentally our focus is absolutely about getting more first home buyers into the market. It is about ensuring that our kids have the same opportunity that we had to pursue the Australian dream.

FORDHAM: It's 25 [minutes] past eight. You're listening to Ben Fordham on 2GB. Richard Marles is with us, the Acting Prime Minister. The ABC remains under fire, Mr Marles. They've refused to remove a segment which graphically describes the torture of Gina Rinehart. Should that video be removed today?

MARLES: Well, I didn't know the video was still there. 

FORDHAM: It’s still up online. Should it be removed today?

MARLES: I've not seen the video. As it's been described to me, that video is completely unacceptable and it surprises me that it's still there. As the video has been described to me – I emphasise I've not seen it, I don't want to see it – but as it's been described to me, it's completely inappropriate and unacceptable and I'm surprised it's still there.

FORDHAM: They say it was only a joke, but they're talking about torturing a woman and the ABC says the internal Ombudsman is in investigating at the moment, but–

MARLES: Well, I think it's appropriate that it's gone to the internal Ombudsman, to be clear. I mean, obviously they've got their own editorial independence and we respect that, but this is– I mean, as this has been described to me, in the terms in which you've just described it then, it's completely unacceptable.

FORDHAM: The Prime Minister has been criticised for not calling it out. Dawn Fraser has described Anthony Albanese as a spineless imbecile.

MARLES: Well, I don't accept what Dawn Fraser’s said about the Prime Minister. Look, as this has been described to me, in the terms that you've just said then, I think it's a completely unacceptable video and I'm surprised it's still there.

FORDHAM: Your advice to the ABC Chairman and Managing Director, not that you offer free advice, would be take it down? 

MARLES: Well, I wouldn't be putting it there. I mean, it's their organisation. It's Australia's organisation, actually. I think it is appropriate that it has been referred to the Ombudsman, but I just think videos of this kind are completely unacceptable.

FORDHAM: On another issue, a retired commander has weighed in on how we investigate war crimes. Major General Roger Noble thinks when allegations are made they must be investigated fairly and quickly. He says people can't go 20 years before someone says now you're guilty or now you're not guilty. And we know that 53 investigations have commenced, 39 are no longer active, 10 are still ongoing and only two have been charged. So that's an enormous amount of resources for only two charges to be laid. And do you agree with Roger Noble that these things need to be done swiftly?

MARLES: Well, they do, but they need to be done thoroughly and it's important that they be looked at. And actually, I think that if what we're talking about is the work of Justice Brereton in terms of his inquiry into what he investigated in Afghanistan, I actually think all of that did happen in a prompt way. I mean, it was an enormous body of work which was undertaken by Justice Brereton–

FORDHAM: But you've got some soldiers and their families who've waited years for an outcome. In one case of Sean McCarthy, who died in service, it was his mum and dad who copped a call years later to say, we've got some news, he's now been cleared. He was already dead. So you can't say they've all been done swiftly.

MARLES: Well, there was an enormous body of evidence that was investigated. Obviously this was done years ago, but it takes a long time to go through all of this and it has to be done thoroughly and accurately. But I do feel that the work that was undertaken by Justice Brereton is a critical piece of work and that was acknowledged by the former government as well. This goes to who we are as a country and it is important that we hold ourselves to account. And that's what Justice Brereton's work did. And from here, the process should play out in accordance with the law and that's what's occurring.

FORDHAM: We also send these people over into areas that none of us ever want to go to and we expect them to fight these ruthless enemies and then when they come home, years can go by and then we analyse their every actions while they're away defending the country.

MARLES: We do send people into harm's way. We also send people into harm's way in a context, and we send people holding the highest values of our nation. And, you know, I spend a lot of time with Australia serving men and women. They have an enormous pride about the uniform they wear, but the way in which they engage in their actions and they expect the highest standard to be undertaken by those around them as well. I mean, I think it's really important to, you know, allow this process now to play out. I mean, the body of work which was undertaken by Justice Brereton did unearth very, very concerning issues and it is appropriate that we are holding ourselves to account. And when I speak to serving men and women, the fact that this has happened and makes it clear that we have one of the most ethical and highest standard defence forces in the world is a matter for them of pride.

FORDHAM: We appreciate you dropping by the studio. Richard Marles, the Acting Prime Minister and Minister for Defence, thank you so much for your time.

MARLES: Thanks, Ben, and thanks, Roger.

ENDS