Radio Interview, ABC Hobart

SUBJECTS: Defence Estate Community Consultation Sessions; Defence Estate Audit

LUCY BREADEN [HOST]: There is a bunch of Defence land that's up for grabs across Tasmania. You've no doubt heard about it over the past month or so. We've been talking about it quite a bit here on ABC Hobart. But it sounds like it's put plans up in the air for the Defence Force, who have used that land up until now. We know that the Anglesea Barracks in Hobart isn't being touched. But if you've got questions, what are they? Representatives of Defence and the Federal Government are in Tasmania this week speaking to the community about what should happen to the land, what it will mean for ADF members, for reserves, for cadets here in Tasmania. Peter Khalil is the Assistant Minister for Defence. He's been in Northern Tasmania the last couple of days, but this afternoon he's in the ABC studio in Hobart and no doubt happy to answer some of your questions as well. So, if you've got one, get in touch, 0438 922 936. Peter Khalil, thanks for coming in. 

PETER KHALIL [ASSISTANT MINISTER]: G'day, Lucy. Thanks for having me. 

BREADEN: How did the trip go? So, you've been a bit around the State so far in the past few days. 

KHALIL: Well, it's been amazing, and everyone knows Tasmania's beautiful, and I don't want to put off the people of Hobart by going to the north first, because I know there's this north‑south rivalry and so on, but I had a wonderful visit to Devonport and to Launceston in the last couple of days, and we had community consultations to talk to stakeholders and community members around the decisions being made around the divestment of Defence sites, and that was really constructive because it is, well, excuse the word, an iterative process, it's an engagement where we're getting the feedback, trying to figure out and push that into both Defence Department and the Finance Department to make decisions about what happens with the future use of these sites. But can I just say very quickly that the whole reason all the rationale around this around the country is that the Defence estate is massive, it's like 3.8 million hectares, largest land holding in Australia, over 100 major bases and sites, but there are many sites that were under used or not used at all, we were spending hundreds of millions of dollars a year on maintenance and sustainment, a waste of taxpayer dollars. There were many sites that were beautiful with sprawling golf courses and tennis courts, but they weren't also fit‑for‑purpose for the needs of the ADF. So, we are making sure, based on the audit, that we are divesting those sites. That money's coming back into Defence, it's going to be reinvested in Defence, so whether it's the permanent members, whether it's the reservists, whether it's the cadets, all that money's being reinvested back in Defence. With respect to Tassie, there's a number of sites across Tassie that were on the list of divestment, but all of the cadets and the reserves, we are making sure that there's a better offering for them. We're actually building two new sites, obviously one in north of Launceston, a Tri‑Service Cadet facility which is a fantastic state‑of‑the‑art facility that's going to be built, and also a multi‑user depot otherwise known as a MUD, so it's going to be clear as mud, but that will be for reserves and cadets and permanent members as well in the northwest of Tasmania. But cadet units that are out in Scottsdale or St Helens or further away, if they're more than 10 or 15 kilometres away, we're going to make sure there's facilities where they are, even if it's a small cadet unit of 10. 

BREADEN: So, it won't be driving more than 10 kilometres to get somewhere if they need to train? 

KHALIL: No, and I had a mum at one of the consultations in Devonport with her son and she said how amazing the cadets have been for him in building up his resilience and leadership skills, and so on, and they were really worried about having to drive long distances. I said, well, that's not going to be a problem, because if it's more than 10 or 15 kilometres, we're going to make sure that there's a facility that's there for those smaller cadet units in more remote locations. 

BREADEN: I've got a question from Grant in Hobart, so pop on your headphones if you've got some there, just so you can hear his question, because this kind of ties into what you've just been saying, and if you have just joined me, Lucy Breaden with you on 936 ABC Hobart. This is Peter Khalil, the Assistant Minister for Defence. He's in Hobart, in Tasmania right now taking a look at some of ‑ because of this Defence Estate Audit that's going on. Grant in Hobart, hello, thanks for holding on there. You've got Peter Khalil. What's your question? 

CALLER: G'day Lucy and Peter, thanks for taking the call. Peter, quite frankly, you can put a bit of a positive spin on these selling off of the land that ‑ in Tasmania, let alone around the country, but at a time when your own boss, the Defence Minister, says is the most pressing in the security of Australia since 1939, your Government really basically is cutting defence. You've been cutting defence by stealth, saying you can't have planes flying as much, ships going to sea as much, it's happening across the board, but it's not getting out, but let me tell you it is now. But let me just say that at a time when you should be encouraging more people to join the Australian Defence Force, all three forces, this is going to ‑ your cut‑backs and putting more stress on the people in Defence will do absolutely nothing to encourage more people to join the Defence at a time when Australia is at its ‑ is almost on its knees in terms of defence. I'd like your response to that. 

KHALIL: Well, thanks for the question, Grant. I agree with half of what you say. The first half, which you say we are in the most difficult strategic circumstances that Australia's faced probably since World War II, and these are serious times, they're unsettling times, they are uncertain times, they're volatile, the work of the Australian Defence Force is absolutely critical in protecting our national interests, protecting the security and stability of our region, and the prosperity that we all ‑ our way of life effectively is so important that the security of the region is there, because we're a maritime nation. So, the other part that I disagree with you is that this estate audit was making the tough decisions to make sure that the base infrastructure was fit‑for‑purpose for the ADF, the current force structure and the future force structure, and frankly, Grant, to be really clear with you. When I saw that there are dozens of sites that we are spending hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on which are dilapidated, empty, not used at all or under used, or some beautiful sites that are not fit‑for‑purpose for the capabilities for the serving men and women, you know, we estimated $2 billion we were spending on maintenance and sustainment of these sites. That is unforgivable. So, we made the tough decisions to say, no, that is not good enough, on the back of the estate audit. It's not just about the money, but the money is going to be reinvested back in Defence. It doesn't just go back into the general pot. There was a very clear part of this reform that the billions that comes from this whole process is reinvested back in the men and women in uniform. In respect of people joining the ADF, there's been some really positive increases in recruitment over the past couple of years, and retention, and people make a commitment to serve their country because they know that they want to protect the way of life that we enjoy as Australians, and it should be acknowledged. And all of the reservists, all of the permanent members in Tasmania, we're making sure, and I've made it really clear to the Department that we have the better offerings. We're building new facilities, we've invested $40 million at Anglesea, we're investing in new facilities in the north as well, and there is a $400 million investment in Defence Industry in Tasmania as well, which includes job creation in really important advanced manufacturing. So, I'd have to disagree with your second part of your analysis. 

BREADEN: Grant, thank you for getting in touch. We'll leave it there because it's almost news time, and we just have a few other points to touch on but thank you for getting in touch with that. This is Peter Khalil, Assistant Minister for Defence in the State, right now to check in with the community to see how they feel about the Defence Estate Audit, what they might like to see in terms of the land or anything else where that money can go. Will you be prioritising certain kinds of projects for these parcels of land, like Dowsing Point, for example, such as new housing, hospitals, shopping centres? 

KHALIL: So, there's so many different ways, Lucy, that the land could be used in the future. There is a process that we're undertaking. My responsibility as the Assistant Minister to Defence is to go through and make sure that we do all the heritage planning, if there are heritage sites; they're all going to be protected under the Commonwealth Heritage Act, there will be listed sites because the history and the legacy of that is really important. Opening up some of that history to the general public is something I'm very passionate about because we've got 130 museums, and some of them are open two hours a fortnight, if that. And so the Australian public should be able to enjoy that. We're also working to make sure - Defence is working to make sure that we work through all the community consultations, all the leasing arrangements, any sort of local groups that might be involved in the sites, and that is resolved, and then the transition of personnel to the new sites or to the refurbished sites that they're going to. Once that's done, it's going to be handed over to Finance, and they will go through another process of disposing of those sites. 

BREADEN: How long can it take? 

KHALIL: So, some sites that might be empty and don't have any of those heritage issues will be ready for sale a lot sooner than others, it could be in months, some sites may take more than a year because they're more complex, or more complicated, but we've got ‑ we're setting a sort of timeframe within the next two years, so it's not all happening overnight, like people are going to be ‑ and no personnel are being kicked off a base or anything like that until they are settled into the better accommodations or the better facilities, which is going to be the transition, and there's money being ‑ there's about $1.2 billion being spent on that transition, so it's not new money, it's going to come from the proceeds of sale to make sure that we get that right as well. 

BREADEN: Lucy Breaden with you, this is Peter Khalil, Assistant Minister for Defence, talking about the Defence Estate Audit that's happening across the country, but we're focusing specifically on Hobart right now. There's an information session tomorrow, it's at the hockey centre at Newtown from 3pm to 6pm. If our listeners have concerns but they can't make it to the hockey centre, can people still have their say? 

KHALIL: Absolutely. So, there's expression of interests actually website on the Department of Finance, people can write to the Department of Finance about their ideas about particular sites and what they should be ‑ what the importance for the community is from their perspective. This is, as I said to people in the consults today in Launceston and last night in Devonport, I want to hear from people about how ‑ what they think, because they're on the ground, they understand the issues, and I've learnt a lot from engaging, and it's not like this is ‑ as I said, it's a two‑year process; we're starting that consultation now so that we're engaging with community and that they can help shape the outcomes as well. 

BREADEN: What were some of the big questions people were asking today? 

KHALIL: There was a lot of great questions, there was questions about where the reservists would be moving, there were questions about live firing on sites in Tasmania. I've made it very clear to the Department, I want options around maintaining live fire exercises in Tasmania and field exercises as well, or the capabilities that exist in Tasmania to be maintained in Tasmania. There were questions about the cadets, obviously, and the drive ‑ how far you'd have to drive, and I've said very clearly we're going to have options and facilities for smaller cadet units so they don't have to travel long distances. There were questions about the future of Defence in Tasmania, this sort of narrative, "Oh, you're abandoning Tasmania because you're divesting some sites". Nothing can be further from the truth. There is a commitment to Tasmania, there is investment in Anglesea, which is actually the oldest continuous base in Australia, I think it was 1811 that it started, so extremely significant, but also operationally significant for the ADF currently. And there were questions about how those capabilities would continue in Tasmania. And look, Tasmanians are actually doing the heavy lifting. Per capita, you've got the highest number of people in the reserves and the Australian Defence Forces per capita. 

BREADEN: Is there enough sites for them? I mean, we're taking some away, I mean I know you're bringing online two new sites in Launceston in the northwest. 

KHALIL: Yeah, I think there's about 580 reservists in Tasmania give or take a few, and there's probably 200 plus cadets. There's some permanent ADF members as well in Tasmania, so it's a significant commitment here. There's also Defence Industry. There's also research with the Defence Science and Technology Group. I was at the Australian Maritime College today. There's a lot of commitment in Tasmania, a lot of investment in Tasmania. In fact, what I saw this morning down at the Australian Maritime College campus was remarkable. The submarine research was unique, and it's one of the few places in the world that's very unique, nowhere else in the world do we have that kind of technology, and Tasmania's leading the way in that. So, there's a real significant contribution that Tasmania's making, and I'm very cognisant of the commitment that Tasmanians have made to our national defence and our national security, and that's why it's important to cut through some of the noise so people can hear what's actually happening and why. 

BREADEN: Yeah. Well, if you've got a question, you can come and talk to the Assistant Minister for Defence, Peter Khalil, from 3pm to 6pm tomorrow. That's an information session, it's at the Hockey Centre at Newtown, and it's talking ‑ it's all about the Defence Estate Audit. Thank you so much for coming in and sharing your thoughts and feelings on this one. Cheers. 

KHALIL: Thanks a lot, cheers. 

BREADEN: Assistant Minister for Defence, Peter Khalil. 

ENDS