TV Interview, ABC 7.30

SUBJECTS: Antisemitism; Protests; ADF support to Victoria Police; Visit to the United States.

SARAH FERGUSON, HOST: Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles, who's also a Victorian, joins me now. Richard Marles, welcome to the program.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good evening, Sarah, how are you?

FERGUSON: I'm very well, thank you. We have violent neo Nazis on our street promoting racism. What is the Government's responsibility faced with this?

MARLES: Well, I mean, it is very confronting, frankly, to see people identifying as Nazis. Obviously what we saw today with the Premier was behaviour which was intimidatory and in turn confronting for her. I obviously know the Premier very well and I know that she is not going to be deterred from any actions that she takes as the Premier. I mean, people in this country absolutely have a right to protest, they absolutely have a right for freedom of speech. But what they don't have a right to do is to spread hatred, to intimidate; because ultimately people also have a right in this country to feel safe. And that is a fundamentally important basic right that we all should be able to enjoy.

FERGUSON: I just referenced the fact that the neo Nazi leader Thomas Sewell, who was the person at that press conference, he was arrested this afternoon in relation to his alleged involvement in the attack on the indigenous burial ground after the rally on Sunday. Counterterrorism police are now involved in this investigation. Is that what this was?

MARLES: An act of terrorism?

FERGUSON: Yes.

MARLES: Well, I mean, what this is is a very disturbing set of behaviours which broke the law– or allegedly broke the law and that now will be the subject of, presumably, an assessment as to whether or not to prosecute. But we have laws in place which provide for people's safety and as a government we've put in place more laws which have criminalised forms of hate speech so that people are able to enjoy their lives in this country free from having to have that kind of hate put upon them. But before you even get there, we have laws which protect people's safety and which stop people from being violent, and that's the allegations that are being made here.

FERGUSON: Let's just go to the organisers of those rallies on Sunday. Now, they distance themselves from the activities of the neo Nazis who attended the rallies in Melbourne. But I note that they use similar language railing about replacement, and I quote from their own material, “replacement of European heritage”. The same language, “replacement”, used by the neo Nazis. Should groups using this kind of language be able to march in our streets?

MARLES: Well, firstly, we're very opposed to the marches which occurred over the course of the weekend. Let me be absolutely clear about that. As I said, Australians do have a right to freedom of speech and they have a right to protest, but they don't have a right to spread hatred. And I think it's really important to make absolutely clear that we are a diverse country, a multicultural country, and the diverse backgrounds that Australians have forms part of what is wonderful about the country which we are today. And as a government, we want to see that celebrated. And I think that's where, as a society, we want to be as well. I also think it’s really important to say that I do not think the protests that we saw on the weekend remotely represent the views of mainstream Australia, remotely represent the views of the vast majority of Australians who want to see us enjoying a peaceful, multicultural society.

FERGUSON: I guess the question is, should groups who use language like that, the language of replacement, should groups like that be able to march openly through our streets using that kind of language?

MARLES: Well, we have laws which prevent hate speech and they’re–

FERGUSON: This falls– this will not be captured by hate speech.

MARLES: And there are defined parameters around what hate speech is. And it's obviously a delicate area, there is a balance here with the freedom of speech. But with the freedom of speech comes the enjoyment of everyone to have that freedom of speech. And let me be clear, the Government's view is that we oppose these protests. The message that was being put forward by these protests, we stand firmly against. We want to celebrate the multicultural society that Australia is, the diverse society that our country is. And I believe that that's what the vast majority of Australians want to celebrate. And these protests do not represent, in any sense, the mainstream of Australian society.

FERGUSON: Is there anything you can do, is there anything the Government can do to stop a similar march taking place in the weeks ahead?

MARLES: Well, as I say, we have criminalised more forms of hate in the legislation that we've put through the Parliament since we have come to power. So, we have extended those crimes. And it's really important that we are exercising our voice to stand up against those who are demonstrating in this way. And I think Australians would feel deeply comfortable– deeply uncomfortable, I should say, about a set of protests which gave a platform to people who are identifying as Nazis.

FERGUSON: Now, let me put this question to you in a different way; is the Government too politically nervous on the subject of immigration to conduct a powerful debate on the way that immigration works in this country? Has it left a void that allows these ugly views to fill?

MARLES: I don't accept that at all. I mean, immigration is an area of policy which needs to be managed year by year and we've been doing that–

FERGUSON: The question is- the question is, are you leading the debate sufficiently? Are you enough on the front foot in relation to how immigration works in this country, or are you allowing a void to be filled by ugly views and disinformation?

MARLES: Well, I think we've been very clear about managing our immigration intake in an orderly way. I mean, the net overseas migration rate has come down by 37 per cent in the last 12 months– in the year ending December 2024. And that comes off what was a spike in the aftermath of the pandemic–

FERGUSON: Clearly there were thousands of people across the country who were proclaiming something quite different to that, a different set of figures, a different interpretation of the figures – wrong, as it turns out – but they're not persuaded by what you're saying. Is the Government failing to prosecute this message?

MARLES: Well, I don't think it's a very large number of people who were protesting in the context of the Australian community and I don't think that they represent the mainstream thought of Australian society. And I think we are making the argument to Australia about how we are managing the immigration system on the one hand, but also just being really clear that aside from First Nations Australians, all of us come with some migration history, and that the diversity of Australia is part of what makes us a wonderful country today, a rich culture in terms of the nation that we enjoy today. And that is something to celebrate. And as a government, that's what we do.

FERGUSON: Now, at least one person at these rallies was holding up a sign in support of Dezi Freeman, the so-called sovereign citizen or self-proclaimed sovereign citizen, who is alleged to have killed two police officers in Victoria. I understand the ADF is now involved in the manhunt for Dezi Freeman. What will they be doing?

MARLES: Well, we are providing a planning specialist in relation to this and that comes after a request from the Victorian Police. We're also providing some air surveillance assets, again coming after a request from the Victorian Police. We will work with– the Australian Defence Force will work with the Victorian Police as they request our assistance in terms of the particular assets and capabilities that we have to bring Dezi Freeman to justice.

FERGUSON: What was the purpose of your trip to the US last week?

MARLES: Well, obviously, the United States is the most important–

FERGUSON: Let me rephrase that, Minister, the specific purpose.

MARLES: Well, the United States is our most important bilateral relationship. There was the opportunity to meet with my counterpart, the Vice President of the United States, who I'd not met with up until my meeting last week. So, this was a trip which afforded an opportunity to do that. I met with the Vice President, I met with my other counterpart, the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who is also right now the acting National Security Advisor–

FERGUSON: Are we any closer to getting a meeting for the Prime Minister with President Trump?

MARLES: Well, as I've said on a number of occasions, I fully expect there will be a meeting between our two leaders in the not too distant future. And ours is a relationship which where we feel a sense of optimism about how we can manage the Alliance with the Trump administration. And indeed, the meetings that I had last week only affirmed that. Obviously, we spoke about the broad breadth of our relationship, our economic relationship, the opportunities that exist in relation to critical minerals, for example. We did talk about our national security relationship, defence-to-defence, and of course, AUKUS is part of that. And all of that is part of the significance of the broad spectrum of the relationship that we have with the United States. And this was an important opportunity for me to have those conversations with Vice President Vance.

FERGUSON: Richard Marles, thank you very much indeed for joining us.

ENDS