Radio Interview, ABC Darwin

SUBJECTS: Australia-Timor‑Leste Relationship; Australia-PNG relationship; Indo-Pacific; Defence Cooperation Framework; ADF recruitment; Corporal Brendan Hannam; Supacat high mobility vehicle; Helen Haines

LAURA STIMPSON, HOST: Richard Marles is the Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister for Australia. Good morning to you.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Lara. How are you?

STIMPSON: I'm well, thank you. You were in Dili earlier this week to sign off on this new partnership with Prime Minister Xanana Gusmão. Why now?

MARLES: Well, this has actually been a work in progress for some time and you can look at what we've been doing with countries around, well, in our region, but surrounding Australia. So, this is actually a really important country because they're clearly a neighbour of ours. But it's a really important link in terms of those countries with whom we now have security agreements from Indonesia through Timor, through PNG, Solomons and you can go around the ring of countries that surround Australia. In many ways, Timor-Leste is the last of those. But this is a really important step which will see much greater levels of cooperation between our defence forces. I think it will open up opportunities in both of our countries which will see more Australian service personnel doing exercises in Timor-Leste, but the same in reverse, more of those serving in the Timor-Leste defence force coming to Australia. There's a real opportunity for us to look at how we can partner with Timor-Leste in terms of uplifting their capabilities. So, it's actually a really exciting step forward and certainly there was a lot of excitement in Dili on Wednesday when we signed the framework you mentioned.

STIMPSON: You mentioned some of the elements there. What does that mean to the territory and Australia specifically? Will we be seeing the territory is a very close neighbour of Timor-Leste. Will we be seeing more of their military and their defence force in Darwin in and around our defence complexes?

MARLES: Look, I think that's all possible and I think particularly as we lead into 2029 and the significance of that year is that that's when Timor-Leste is scheduled to chair ASEAN and what comes with that is some really significant meetings in the host country of ASEAN. So, the ASEAN Leaders Summit, which ends up being done in combination with the East Asian Summit, is, you know, often an event which has the American president, the Chinese president, as well as, you know, many world leaders going to it. That's in Manila this year. The expectation is that in 2029 that may well be in Dili. And so there needs to be a lot of support for that. And Darwin, I think has a really big role to play in respect of that. And so I think both going both ways, Australian service personnel going to Timor-Leste, but also having a presence of Timor-Leste personnel in Darwin, I think it's something that we'll see more of going forward.

STIMPSON: Why is Timor-Leste so important to Australia's security in the region? And is that something that has changed in your view in recent years? Particularly as, and it's no secret your government has been trying to send a message to countries like China about their presence in the Pacific. Has that changed in relation to Timor-Leste?

MARLES: I don't think it's changed, but I think there is a much bigger focus from government on our region. I mean, certainly that's been a focus of the Albanese Labor government since we've come to power, is to really try and up our presence and our game within our region and to strengthen our relationship. So, I think that you see a difference in that respect. But I think actually if you kind of take a step back and objectively look at the strategic importance of Timor-Leste to Australia, it's always been critically important. It is a neighbour, it's right there. And it matters that we have the strongest level of engagement possible with Timor-Leste. As I describe it to people, if you look at the Treaty of Common Security that we signed with Indonesia in January of this year, the alliance that we have now made operational with Papua New Guinea since July, we're working on a security agreement with Solomon Islands, which we're very hopeful we'll be in a position to sign in the very near term. We signed a security agreement with Vanuatu. France, in terms of New Caledonia, is obviously a NATO partner. And so we have a long-standing relationship there. And then you have New Zealand, and we've also done an alliance with Fiji. Now those countries form the ring of countries around our continent. And we've done more to secure those relationships through these agreements and bringing substance to those agreements than really any Australian government in our history. And when you do that exercise, the last link in the chain is Timor-Leste. It's a neighbour too, and it's as significant as any of them. And that's why what we did on Wednesday, I think was so important, it actually completes in many ways that project of building those relationships with the countries which surround Australia. And you're right in saying, I think there's a particular focus in respect to Timor-Leste for Darwin because of the proximity. And when we look at how we do give substance to that particular relationship, Darwin is going to play a really critical role. I mean, for example, the major exercise that we do with Timor-Leste, which is Exercise Hari'i Hamutuk, which we'll be doing, we hope, in August of next year, that involves around 120 personnel that come out of 1 Brigade in Darwin. So, it's very much our service personnel in Darwin who are doing those sorts of engagements, those sorts of exercises with Timor-Leste.

STIMPSON: You're hearing from the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister for Defence this morning, Richard Marles on 105.7 ABC Darwin. I'm Laura Stimpson. It's about a quarter past nine. Is all of this successfully sending the message that you want to send to China?

MARLES: Well, I think actually for me, the message is about the region, which is that we're here to engage and that we want to be the natural partner of choice for the countries of the Pacific, but also very much a country like Timor-Leste and the countries of our very near neighbourhood. We want to be that natural partner of choice when that comes.

STIMPSON: But it is bigger than that, isn't it, too? It is about the broader message to the world about this region?

MARLES: Well, it's certainly about the significance of the region. It's certainly about the fact that Australia needs to play our part within the region, that what we are doing through these engagements and through these security agreements is not just to provide for the security of Australia, although it most definitely is that, but it's really about providing for the collective security of the region, be that the Pacific or be that Southeast Asia. And we understand that from our own perspective, the defence of Australia really doesn't mean that much unless you're talking about a peaceful and stable Pacific, a peaceful and stable Southeast Asia, because were the opposite to be the case, that would inevitably have an impact on us. And so we need to be playing our part in providing for the collective security of these regions. And that's what we're doing through these agreements. And that's really the message that we want to send. I don't think it's to China in particular. I think it is a statement to the world, but specifically to the region that we are here to play our part and we want to partner and we want to build peace and stability within our region.

STIMPSON: Part of that is a new PNG-Australia Mutual Defence Treaty. Part of that as well is that eligible Papua New Guineans will be able to apply to join the Australian Defence Force. Why is that the right step?

MARLES: Well, look, I think this is a really good initiative for both Australia and Papua New Guinea. This week we participated in, it's actually the 32nd Annual Ministerial Forum between Australia and PNG. We only do this exercise with PNG, which is to have not just two Ministers, but a group of Ministers. Eight of us went up to Port Moresby to meet with our counterparts there. But this is the first time we've had this meeting as allies, as allied partners, the alliance coming into effect in July. And as part of the alliance partnership, what we announced coming out of this forum was that recruitment of Papua New Guineans into the Australian Defence Force will commence from the 16th of November, which is a really big step forward. Now, from Australia's point of view, you know, we have aspirations to grow our defence force significantly through the 2030s into the 2040s. And I think this has the opportunity to play a very important part in that growth. From PNG's point of view, this is providing opportunities to young Papua New Guineans which they would not be able to dream of otherwise. And so it's a great outcome for them as well. Those who do serve will become Australian citizens, but they'll maintain their PNG citizenship. And so in that sense, they will literally be the embodiment of the alliance. They'll be both Papua New Guineans and Australians, protecting both of our nations. It starts small as a pilot project. So, the plan is to put 50 people through a 16 week training program next year, which would be done in Papua New Guinea, with a view to this time next year them entering into the Australian Defence Force, and then 50 the year after that. And it is starting slow because we want to make sure we prove this and get it right. But in the fullness of time, a decade from now, we hope to do this at scale. We'll be talking about thousands of people.

STIMPSON: Is the reason you have to do this or consider this option because you aren't doing enough to attract Australians here in this country now to join the Australian Defence Force?

MARLES: Well, actually the recruitment is going well in Australia right now. So, the interest in joining the ADF is at a 20 year high. The separation rate is well below the average and the long term average. And so actually our recruitment numbers are very strong. And that's in turn been a function of intentional policy here. We've been investing in our Defence Force, paying them more, frankly, and making sure that there are retention bonuses and also trying to shorten the period it takes from when you first indicate a desire to join the Defence Force to that moment when you actually are accepted into it. So, we've been working hard on our domestic recruitment and that is bearing fruit with the numbers that are now coming through in our Defence Force. But this is an opportunity to grow the Defence Force further, but to do so in a way where we are working really closely with an allied partner in Papua New Guinea. And it's a great opportunity for them as well. And what it will do is bind our countries closer together, our defence forces closer together. And that is a fantastic practical outcome. It is a fantastic strategic outcome for Australia. And that's really why we're walking down this path. And it's why Papua New Guinea is walking down that path as well.

STIMPSON: 21 past 9. Laura Stimson with you, as is Richard Marles, the Minister for Defence and the Deputy Prime Minister. Just a couple more things before I let you go. The investigation into the death of Corporal Brendan Hannam, who died in a vehicle rollover at the Mount Bundy training area, south-east of Darwin earlier this month, that's ongoing. Can you provide us an update on that investigation and what it's found?

MARLES: Look, I don't have any more information that I can provide you at this moment, but you're right in saying that those investigations, there are multiple investigations actually, are ongoing and they will take some time. It will be a really thorough process. It's very important that we learn everything that we can learn from this to make sure that we put in place the appropriate changes going forward. And I'm very keen to ensure that those processes are as thorough as possible. But I don't have any specific updates at this point.

STIMPSON: One of the things we have learnt in recent days is that this incident wasn't the first type of rollover involving a Supacat high mobility vehicle, which is used by the Army. Can you confirm if you're reviewing the use of that particular vehicle in training in Australia?

MARLES: Well, we're definitely reviewing the vehicle because I mean, that forms part of the investigation and every aspect of it and the way in which we undertake our training, where rollovers have occurred, be it that vehicle or any other. I mean, all of that is being.

STIMPSON: Have you ceased the use of the vehicle at least while those investigations are underway?

MARLES: Look, we did suspend the use of the vehicle immediately. I'd need to come back to you on the specifics of where that's at right now. But there was, at the time of the incident, an immediate suspension of the use of the vehicle. I'm not precisely sure of what the use of it is right now.

STIMPSON: Ok. Richard Marles, it's been a big week in Australian politics. We are still, of course, keeping a close eye on the condition of Helen Haines, who we understand is still in a critical condition in hospital. She's both lost both of her legs and there is a proceeding underway in our courts investigating that. How are you reflecting on this week and as a politician, on your sense of safety in your line of work?

MARLES: Well, I think all of us feel a deep sense of shock and sadness for Helen. First and foremost, our thoughts are with Helen. I genuinely can't believe what has happened, to be honest. And Helen, since being a Member of Parliament, she was elected back in 2019, for the first time, really has just been a beacon of decency within the Parliament. I mean, I've never had a bad conversation with Helen Haines. She comes to her work with a sense of sincerity, with curiosity, with passion, for sure, in terms of representing her community. And she is the very best of what you would hope a representative to be of a community, of a constituency, in Parliament. And so that this has happened to her, that it's happened to any one of us, is obviously utterly appalling. And so there is just a real sense of feeling devastated for her. I think it does make me reflect on the way in which we engage in public discourse. The Prime Minister has talked about needing to turn the temperature down. I think that that is absolutely right. I think we, you know, obviously we have differences and we should have differences, and it's important that they are debated out robustly. But it's got to be possible to do that in a way which also acknowledges that all of us come to our work with a sincerity and a desire to try and make Australia a better place and to try and make life better for the constituents that we represent. That's why we come to do what we do. And I think, you know, I would say that when I look across the Parliament, not just in my party, but all the parties that I engage with over the time that I've been an MP, I think people are there for the right reasons. And I think acknowledging that and having the respect for that and seeing the sincerity with which people bring their case forward, that's the starting point. I think, you know, hopefully we can change the tone of the way in which debate occurs. And look, I think the media has a part to play here as well. But I do think it starts with the way we as politicians speak about each other and engage in this public debate. And I think Anthony's call for us to turn the temperature down, I think is exactly right.

STIMPSON: Thank you for your time this morning.

MARLES: Thanks, Lara.

ENDS