Doorstop, Washington DC

SUBJECTS: Australia-US relationship; ANZUS; AUSMIN; AI; Data Centres; US Force Posture

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, RICHARD MARLES: Well, welcome everyone. It's been a really productive day here in DC. Today I've met with Vice President Vance as well as Secretary Hegseth. Yesterday was the 75th anniversary of the ANZUS alliance, our formal alliance with the United States. So, our meetings today took place on really an auspicious anniversary on what is the cornerstone relationship of our foreign and strategic policy. We were able to talk about the progress of the relationship, and particularly being the first meeting here in the United States that I've been able to undertake since announcing the National Defence Strategy back in April. What that is showing is that we are making real progress in relation to AUKUS- as we speak, there are American personnel who are at HMAS Stirling who are there readying HMAS Stirling for the Submarine Rotation Force-West, which is on time and on track to occur from the end of next year. And all of that was very welcome news in the meetings that I was able to have today. We spoke about the challenges that we are seeing in the world today and the importance of our alliance in respect of that. We spoke about the critical minerals agreement that was signed by the Prime Minister and the President just under a year ago, and how that has been an enormous success for both of our countries in an economic sense, but very much in a national security sense. We've seen $4 billion invested in less than a year on projects which are really important for both of our economies in terms of building safe supply chains, but really important in terms of our national security. We also spoke about a range of other issues, including American force posture, but particularly with a view to the AUSMIN talks, which will happen in the next couple of months, but very much before the end of the year. So it was a highly productive set of conversations about where the relationship is at, and as we meet on the 75th anniversary, the relationship is very much in good order. 

On Monday, I was with Assistant Minister Andrew Charlton in San Francisco, meeting with a number of the American tech companies, including the frontier labs, around the potential for investment in Australia in terms of data centres, but also in respect of AI training, this is a really important opportunity for the country economically but it's a really important opportunity for the country in terms of our national security, frankly, in terms of our sovereignty. I think this is as significant a sovereignty moment as our country has faced since the end of the Second World War. This is an opportunity for us to be collaborating on one of the most significant technologies that humanity has ever seen, and in doing so, make sure that we are at the forefront of the use of this technology and the sovereignty associated with it, particularly in respect of our national security. And that was very much part of the conversations that we had with the tech companies on Monday, and we continue those conversations with the administration today. Importantly, though, it matters that we are doing this in a way which is protecting rights holders in Australia, journalists, news organisations, but also creatives. We are very mindful that all of that must be protected, as well as ensuring that there is a social license gained in respect of building data centres- where those data centres are located, making sure that they are in appropriate places and not in highly populated areas, but also making sure that those data centres come with appropriate power. There's actually an opportunity here done right, where the presence of those data centres and the power that will be built to power them actually will contribute to Australia's energy security, can make a difference in reducing power bills for Australians. So we really want to see that if we walk down this path, and this is an enormous opportunity for Australia, there are those benefits which come with this as well. It's a really important set of conversations, and this is moving really quickly. This is not measured over the course of the next few years. It's really measured over the course of the next few months. And it was a very important mission that we had, and came very much on the heels of the Prime Minister's speech a month ago, which certainly had been heard by those companies and here in DC, and was a really important statement of Australian intent to get this right in terms of AI standards, but to make the most of this opportunity, both economically and from a national security perspective. With that, very much happy to take questions about my visit here. 

JOURNALIST: So, where will all the data centres be going then? And you know, given that some of them are already going up in places like Macquarie Park in Sydney, right next to Metro Stations in some cases, it doesn't seem like there is that commitment to putting them outside of populated areas. So, what commitments did you get in San Francisco from those tech companies around that? 

MARLES: Well, I think what we're seeing with the building of data centres is that it's fundamentally important that you get the social license right, and to be honest, that's something which these companies are experiencing here in the United States. That the whole point of what we've done in terms of articulating AI standards is to make sure that we are doing this in the right way in Australia, that we get the planning right so that the data centres are placed in appropriate places, and that's very much where our focus is at. But also that they come with power, so that the power infrastructure that is created to power these data centres actually makes a contribution to our overall power grid, rather than taking power from it. And that's a really important part of it, and I guess in answer to your question, as we spoke about the need for that in terms of the investment that these companies are looking at making, to be honest, that's a welcome message from their perspective. I mean, without a social license, this doesn't get done. And I think they see, as we do, that if you look at a country anywhere in the world, which is best place to deal with this challenge, Australia is it. But it's really important we get this right, and that's why you know it's not- we've got to have these standards in place so this is done right. 

JOURNALIST: What is an appropriate place in the government's view? Are we talking regional towns, the bush? What do you mean by that? 

MARLES: Well, I mean we need to go through all the processes in respect of planning to win that social license, and that's what will ultimately define what those appropriate places are. I think that- I mean without going into the specifics of it, when you're talking to these companies, and certainly as we're thinking about it, it is in more remote places. But you know there is a lot of specifics in terms of what's an appropriate place for a data centre and what is not. But what matters is that you have those guidelines in place and you rigorously apply them, and that's absolutely critical here. It is both the planning side of it, where they're located, but it is also the power side of it and the water side of it. But it ends up being a function of that. 

JOURNALIST: Minister, you'd be aware here in America that the issue with companies like Anthropic, it's been a big issue in terms of possible use of technologies in defence. As the Australian Defence Minister, how concerned or conscious are you of the possible use or misuse of some of these technologies in warfare, and is that an issue that still concerns the Americans? 

MARLES: Well, I mean, AI is going to be a part of the way in which defence is undertaken around the world. And so I'm concerned in every respect that you've just said. But to be clear, when we look at all of the major platforms that we are operating today, you know, going forward, AI will have a part in respect of them. And that's why this is such an important sovereignty question for Australia- like it really matters that we have access to this technology, and it therefore matters that we have agency here. And that's why collaborating in respect of this technology represents such an important national security opportunity, but such an important sovereignty opportunity for Australia. Now we've got to get this right. The question around data centres is a really good question in terms of getting it right, but we also need to get it right in respect of an issue such as copyright, and we're working very much on that. And in doing that, you know, we do need to be protecting rights holders in respect of that, but getting it right is you know very much the intention of the government, and there is a lot of focus in respect of that. It was demonstrated in the Prime Minister's speech a month ago, my visit here and that leg of the visit to San Francisco is very much backing that in. But, with all of that in mind, this is an opportunity that we must grab, and that's what we're trying to do. 

JOURNALIST: If I could follow up just on AUKUS as well, as you know, that under the AUKUS agreement, it's up to ultimately the President to give the go-ahead for Australia to get any of these submarines. Why would any President of the United States, given such strategic competition at the moment with China, that's getting greater, not lesser? Why would any president agree to give to us or anybody else such a valuable asset that America simply can't produce as many of as it wants to? 

MARLES: Because what AUKUS is doing is providing more sea days for the Virginia class fleet for the United States Navy, and more sea days’ worth than a single submarine. And that's part of the agreement that we have with the United States. I mean that's why we are contributing to the industrial base here to increase the rate of production of submarines in America for the United States Navy, and we're confident about that process. But the establishment of the Submarine Rotation Force- West at HMAS Stirling, as well as the establishment of the Henderson Defence Precinct offers the opportunity for U.S. Navy submarines to undergo maintenance much closer to their critical area of operation, which creates sea days for the United States Navy, and that's ultimately why this is such an important agreement from the United States point of view- that's why they're walking down this path. And why we're walking down this path is obviously a greater capability for the U.S. Navy as in Australia's interest but what comes with that is the opportunity for us to acquire Virginia class submarines of our own, and that bridges the gap between the Collins class submarines that we have today, and the building of SSN-AUKUS, Australian made submarines, which will roll off the production line in the early 2040s. Now, all of that, we're actually really confident about the progress of it. That that’s all moving at a pace, and so we are confident that the conditions will be met, which will enable Australia to acquire those Virginia class sufferings in the early 2030s. 

JOURNALIST: Minister, can I- on Iran, what's Australia's position on this recent, in recent days, escalation by America- strikes in the Middle East. And what indications did you get from your talks on how long this is going to drag on, given the you know economic disruptions that it's causing for Australia and other countries around the world?

MARLES: Well, look, we spoke about it, but I won't go into the details of what we spoke about. I think in in general terms, you know, we have been advocating for a de-escalation in respect of the conflict in the Middle East, but at the same time, what we need to see is an opening of the Straits of Hormuz. And what Iran has done in terms of seeking to restrict the movement of shipping through the Strait of Hormuz is completely inconsistent with the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. It's completely unacceptable, and we really need to see Iran allow that shipping to occur. We've also said from the get-go that reducing Iran's nuclear ambitions is an important measure to be taken as well, and that's been at the heart of our posture and respect of the conflict in Iran from the beginning, but you know we do want to see a de-escalation. At the same time, we need to see the rules-based order adhered to, and that means an opening of the Straits of Hormuz. 

JOURNALIST: Back to AUKUS, if I may, DPM, the War Department has sent out that Australia and the United States agreed to accelerate force posture initiatives on that. Can you speak to what is being accelerated? And secondly, in his opening remarks, Secretary Hegseth said that it was important to make sure our capabilities match. So, was Australia asked for anything in addition here? Were we pushed again on that spending? 

MARLES: There's a little bit in that. Firstly, in terms of the settings that are currently in place that have been agreed through successive AUSMINs, American force posture in Australia is growing, and that's across all the domains. But the big one is the establishment of the Submarine Rotation Force-West, which, as I've said, is on track to be in place by the end of next year. In fact, there are American personnel already at HMAS Stirling right now. In terms of further force posture initiatives, we did speak about that today. I won't go into that in detail. That's largely because we were really speaking about that ahead of the meeting of AUSMIN later in the year, and so you'll hear more from us about what they are at AUSMIN when we meet. But if you look at the AUSMIN meetings that we've done since we've come to government, you can see a through line there of growing American force posture in Australia, and we think that's really important in terms of providing deterrence in the Indo-Pacific, providing for stability and peace in the Indo-Pacific, and that's very much in Australia's national interest. In respect of defence spending, I mean, we have a good story to tell here, and that comes from what we announced in 2023, 24, 25 and 26- four successive years of announcements in respect of increases in defence spending, which sees an additional $117 billion injected into the ten year time frame of spending- that's 12 times as much in four years as what the Coalition did over the nine years that they were in government. That we now have defence spending at 2.8 per cent of GDP by the NATO measure puts us ahead of most NATO countries, with the exception of the Nordics, the Baltics, Poland- that kind of that front line. That means you know our spending on this day in respect of defence ahead of Germany, ahead of Britain, ahead of France, ahead of Spain, ahead of Italy- all of that is understood. You know we have one of the highest spends on defence in the Indo-Pacific, and we now have in the Integrated Investment Program, which is the budget which has gone through the Parliament, defence spending going to 3 per cent of GDP by 2033. All of that is a good story to tell. This is the biggest peacetime increase in defence spending that we've done, and I think that's a you know we understand the American position, but I think that that is a story which is well received. 

JOURNALIST: Acknowledge all of that, but when Secretary Hegseth says talking about matching capabilities, was Australia pushed to give further? 

MARLES: Well, I mean, we spoke in terms of what other force posture initiatives we might do, and we're both doing that together. To be honest, because that's been the direction that we've taken things in the successive meetings of AUSMIN that we've had since 2022, and we spoke about that in the context of what we would want to see come out of AUSMIN this year, and so you will hear more from us on that topic in the coming months. But we did we did talk about that today.

JOURNALIST: So just to be really clear on that point, the Americans- are you saying the Americans are looking for to increase their force posture in Australia beyond what's in the agreement around Submarine Rotational Force-West as it stands? And just related to that, did you have to do any further cleaning up around the mess created by Minister Conroy's recent visit around that?

MARLES: Well, I don't kind of accept the assertion of the second part of the question. I mean, the position in respect of the Submarine Rotational Force-West is clear. In respect of American force posture, we've seen an increase across all domains. I mean, we've seen an increase, for example, in the marine rotation in Darwin. But we have seen increased American force posture in areas such as logistics, cooperation, in respect of our air forces, cyber, and space. You know, so it is it is across the domains, and we are looking for those opportunities. That that has been a joint collaborative project that we've been engaging in since 2022. We want this year's AUSMIN to be another meeting which takes this forward, and we spoke about you know what we can bring to this this year's AUSMIN. So I mean, part of what today was, amongst other things, was a really important meeting, I think in terms of preparing us for AUSMIN later in the year, and you'll hear more from us on all of those questions when we do AUSMIN and have the announcements coming out. 

JOURNALIST: Minister, just to the force posture question. Earlier in the week, the United States Studies Center put out a survey showing quite low, or you know, a large group of Australians who have major concerns about the reliability of the US as an ally and feel that the government hasn't done enough to justify our ongoing and deepening military cooperation, which it seems to be what you're pointing to here with force posture. So, how do you rationalize or justify what you're announcing here to those people who look at the U.S. and you know ask real questions about whether they are a reliable partner? You talked before about wanting to maintain a rules-based border. Well, this administration has done more than many to undermine that. 

MARLES: I mean, we live in a world which is as challenging a strategic landscape for Australia as really any that we've faced since the end of the Second World War. That's a point that we have made consistently. There are a number of dimensions to that, but one of them is that we are seeing the biggest conventional military build-up by any country in the world since the Second World War in the form of China, without the kind of strategic reassurance that one would expect. With that, we need to be ensuring that we build deterrence, that we build balance, so that we can provide for the peace and stability of the region in which we live. Collaboration through the alliance with the United States is fundamentally important to that. I mean, that's at the heart of that, and that's something which, to be frank, transcends governments of the day. I mean, this is work which has been built upon over years and decades, and leads to a position now where we have a deeply coordinated, defence forces, and we are looking at taking that further. This is fundamentally important to the defence of Australia, but it's fundamentally important providing for the peace and security of the Indo-Pacific, and all of that is about providing for the safety of Australians. So that's how I justify it, and you know that defence engagement is you know, we are really grateful for it- I know America is as well. We have worked together very closely, and I think it is important to talk about that on these days. 75 years of our formal alliance, I mean, this is a body of work over a long period of time, which is a hugely successful alliance, a hugely successful collaboration between two countries, which has made a difference to provide for a safer world. 

JOURNALIST: There’s a story in the papers today that the you know independent AUKUS inquiry is going to hear from people who say you know they're concerned that AUKUS makes Australia more of a target. It sounds like the outcome of today's meeting is that you know there's a desire for US forces positioned in Australia to increase even beyond what was already planned. What do you say to those people, including those in your own party, who will worry that you know, one without hearing the detail of what this increased posture is going to look like, that it will make Australia more of a target? 

MARLES: We work closely with the United States through our alliance to provide for the peace and stability of the Indo-Pacific, and that's what I think underpins the security of Australians. You know, it is really important that we are doing that. We are doing that in the context of a very challenging international environment, and this work is profoundly important. And the alliance is as relevant and as important today as it has ever been. I'll just reiterate: our alliance has been around for 75 years, it does transcend governments of the day, both here in DC or in Canberra. And it matters that we are making our contribution to the alliance going forward because it is at the heart of providing for not only the safety and the security of Australians, but frankly, the safety and security of the Indo-Pacific. 

JOURNALIST: Just one more on regulating AI, so part of the outreach coming to the US on this trip was to communicate the priorities out of the Prime Minister's speech around strengthening copyright protections and also a framework around data centres. At the same time, you've got the United States yesterday at the Innovation Ministerial kind of urging G20 member countries to take a hands-off approach to regulation and knock back AI with too many rules to hinder its growth. When you communicate to Vice President Vance, Secretary Hegseth, about what Australia is doing on the AI regulation front, are they comfortable with our intent to regulate in our national interests, or would they prefer you not doing those rules at all? 

MARLES: Well since, I mean I don't want to kind of put words into the US's mouth. I mean, it's really a matter for them in terms of how they see it, but how we see it is that this is a really historic opportunity for Australia, it is in economic terms, but it very much is in national security terms. I actually think, from a national security perspective, having Australia as a place from which you know, frontier labs, tech companies operate is in a way, in a national security sense, a kind of extension of what we are doing with the alliance, what we do with American force posture. Our continent and our country can offer a lot here. We're a democracy, we have strong information security, great infrastructure, stable government, and our geography clearly matters. You know, both in terms of where we're located, but also the size of the country. So all these are really good reasons, and I think that's for there to be this infrastructure and this investment to occur in Australia. And I think that's an argument which is understood here in DC. But we're also really clear that that will only happen if we get the social license right, and we need to be making sure that we are doing this in a way which works for our country, and that does mean getting the questions right in respect of data centres, as we've just described, but also dealing with issues of copyright in a way which protects rights holders. 

JOURNALIST: What did you tell the companies about the news bargaining incentive? Did they raise concerns about that? 

MARLES: We wouldn't go to that when we were speaking to the companies, but we're very much focused on this particular project. Great, thank you.

ENDS