Radio Interview, ABC AM

SUBJECTS: Middle East Conflict; National Defence Strategy 2026

MELISSA CLARKE, HOST: The Defence Minister joins me. Richard Marles, thanks for speaking with AM this morning.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Melissa. How are you?

CLARKE: Good, thank you. Can you take me through how much extra money there is for drones and other autonomous capabilities, and what exactly will it fund?

MARLES: We are spending $12 to $15 billion over the next decade on autonomous capabilities, which is a significant increase—$2 to $5 billion extra relative to what we had in NDS ‘24. So, it is a very big step up in terms of the spending that we’re doing on this, and really it’s driven by the way in which modern warfare has changed. I think everyone has been really amazed at how the war in Ukraine has unfolded, but evolved over the period in which it’s been contested. And clearly, autonomous systems now are really central to how contest happens, how war happens. We can see that also playing out in the Middle East. So, it’s very important that we are maintaining pace with that, and we’re very much increasing our focus on autonomous systems as a result.

CLARKE: So, an extra $2 to $5 billion on top of what had already been planned to be spent in this area. So, what’s being deprioritised to spare up funding to shift towards drones and other autonomous vehicles?

MARLES: Well, we’ll go through all of that on Thursday. But I guess the point I would simply say in terms of the broader picture around the funding of defence—what you’ll see on Thursday is a continuation of our track record, which is to increase our investment in defence. And we’ll talk about that on Thursday. But clearly, a focus on autonomous systems has to be a part of how we are thinking about the defence force that we are building today. And so, be it Ghost Shark, which we announced in the course of the last year—$1.7 billion over the next five years—which is the largest underwater autonomous system in the world today, or Ghost Bat, which is really the leading collaborative combat aircraft which is being developed—and again, we spent $1.4 billion just recently in terms of the next phase of Ghost Bat—these are really critical, cutting-edge, world-leading technologies that are autonomous, obviously, but which also fit the Australian circumstance. They’re at the larger end of that spectrum, given where we are and the distances that we need to deal with—and it’s now a very central part of the defence force we’re building.

CLARKE: Do we need to look more at counter-drone capabilities as well, or does our geographic situation mean that’s less of a priority than the sorts of initiatives you just outlined?

MARLES: No, we definitely are looking at counter-drone technology as well. So, it is very much across the spectrum. I mean, I think what would be fair to say is that, given our geography, we are becoming a specialist in terms of the development of technology here in Australia at the larger end. But in terms of the capabilities that we will need for our defence force, it is across the full spectrum. And what you get at the smaller end is mass—you know, lots of units—and that’s what we are seeing play out in Ukraine. But we look at what’s happening in the Middle East right now—you need counter-drone technology as well, and that’s a critical part of the whole equation of what we’re putting together here.

CLARKE: Well, we also see that US and Gulf countries have really burnt through years of missiles and interceptors to deal with the threats from drones and missiles. We’ve even seen missiles meant for Ukraine being diverted to the Middle East. Does that leave Australia a little bit exposed, given we’re still in the process of developing our own domestic manufacturing of missiles? Is Australia at the back of the queue now for new missile systems?

MARLES: Well, in terms of missile systems, it has been really clear for some time that, for Australia to have the war stocks that we need, we’ve got to be building missiles in Australia. And that’s why we’ve greatly brought forward the development of a missile manufacturing capability in Australia, which has now actually seen us, for the first time, manufacture missiles in Australia. And we began that process last year. And that, relative to what we inherited, we’ve brought forward years and years in order to be developing that now. And that will be a really critical capability because, to use your language, it will ensure that Australia is at the front of the queue when we have our own capability. I think, though—just—sorry, you go.

CLARKE: Oh, I just wanted to—just with time pressing—wanted to ask you about the Strait of Hormuz before we run out of time. The US is now blockading Iranian ports and its coastline. Does the government support this kind of action by the US?

MARLES: Well, what we support is to see, ultimately, the Strait of Hormuz open, and that’s what the US wants as well.

CLARKE: But another blockade doesn’t really help that, though, does it?

MARLES: Well, we need to see freedom of navigation, obviously, through the Strait of Hormuz. Obviously, we have—we’re deeply invested in having an open Strait of Hormuz and the global fuel supply chain return to normality. We’re working with all of our partners, and that includes the US, but we are very much working with countries like the UK and France. And you reported on the summit that’s coming up later this week. We are working with all of our partners around efforts that are being taken forward in respect of the Strait of Hormuz and how Australia can best contribute. But what I’d say about that is that, you know, all of those are predicated on when conditions allow that to occur. And right now, you know, that is very uncertain, and we really need to see what plays out throughout the remainder of the ceasefire and as to what the circumstances are in the Strait of Hormuz which would allow some effort to begin.

CLARKE: Richard Marles, thanks very much for speaking to AM this morning.

MARLES: Thanks, Melissa.

ENDS