Joint Press Conference, Parliament House

SUBJECT/S: Australia-Germany Defence Relationship; Middle East Conflict

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, welcome everyone today, and look, it is just an enormous pleasure to be able to welcome my good friend Boris Pistorius, the German Defence Minister. It is the first visit of a German Defence Minister to Australia in eight years. And in fact, there’s a symmetry about Boris’ visit this week, because the last visit was then German Defence Minister von der Leyen, who, of course, was here on Tuesday, is now President von der Leyen, and it was great to have her here as well. But in fact, Boris and I were together just six weeks ago when I was at the Munich Security Conference, and it’s really nice to be able to reciprocate. I mean, you were hosting the whole world there, but it was nice to be able to reciprocate and hosting you here today. Obviously, Germany is a country which is like-minded with Australia. We share values, we are democracies, we respect freedom of speech, we respect the rule of law at home and internationally. The rules-based order is deeply important to both of our countries and, as such, to be able to work closely with Germany is critical in what is a very challenging world. And, you know, today, there is a deep sense of connection between the Indo-Pacific and Europe. The moment that we saw a No Limits Agreement signed between Russia and China on the eve of the war in Ukraine really was the moment that a war in Eastern Europe became critically important to Australia, and in respect of that, we are deeply appreciative of German leadership in respect of supporting Ukraine. And we very much, in terms of our own contributions to supporting Ukraine, value the leadership that Germany provides, along with the UK and others and NATO, of course, and we very much thank you for that partnership. But it is an example of how, in fact, we find ourselves as two countries operating more closely together, and in that sense, the first deployment of the E-7 to Europe in support of Ukraine actually operated out of the base at Ramstein, from Germany. So, you know, there is an operational level of engagement that we are having between our two countries. And you can see that in terms of an increased participation by Germany in exercises like Talisman Sabre last year and Pitch Black later this year in Darwin. So, this is a relationship which is going from strength to strength, and this is a meeting that we see as really critically important. Today, we are announcing that our two countries will be pursuing a Status of Forces Agreement, which will make it much easier for our defence forces to operate from each other’s countries, and given what I’ve just said, that is hugely important in terms of plotting our pathway forward together. We have also signed a letter of intent in respect of space cooperation. Space domain awareness is an increasingly vital part of defence capability, and the possibilities and the opportunities for Australia and Germany to work closely together in terms of space cooperation are really significant, and we do identify this as a particular area where we think that we can do much good together. And the other area is, of course, defence industry. I mean, Germany, German engineering is obviously famous, but Germany actually has had a long, German companies have had a long history in supporting platforms in the Australian Defence Force. Rheinmetall has established its facility in Brisbane, where it makes our combat reconnaissance vehicle, more than 200 for the Australian Army. But in addition to that, another 100 which are being sent back to Europe to be part of the German Army, and it is, at this point, our largest defence export. And I know that Boris will be visiting the facility tomorrow, and so we see defence industry cooperation as really important. And to that end, tomorrow, there will be the signing of a letter of cooperation with TDW, a German defence industry company involved in missile manufacture, and it will form part of the Guided Weapons and Explosive Ordnance enterprise that we are pursuing as they work closely with Kongsberg in Australia in terms of the manufacture of classes of missiles that we will be using for our defence force. So these are three really substantive and practical outcomes that come from our meeting today. As I say, Boris, you are a greatly honoured and welcome guest here in Australia, and we look at the world around us today and all the challenges, and in the context of that, we see our relationship with Germany as so important, but so welcome, and it has been a joy for me to work with you personally, Boris, but we really see this as a relationship which is increasingly important for our national interest going into the future.

BORIS PISTORIUS, GERMAN MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, Richard, in the first place, I would like to apologise for my English. Obviously, I’m not a native speaker, so sometimes I don’t, sometimes I don’t find the words I’m looking for. But anyway, I hope you will understand me. It’s great to be here in Canberra, really great. And our last meeting took place just a couple of kilometres away, 16,000 to be precise, from here on the other side of the globe, at the Munich Security Conference. This is my first visit to Australia, and thank you for the very warm welcome here in your beautiful country. Australia is our most important partner in the southern Indo-Pacific region. Since 2013, we have maintained a strategic partnership, which was further extended in 2021, and you mentioned it earlier, and with my words, in a world with less reliability, with less honesty, with less predictability, it’s even more important that like-minded partners like Australia and Germany and others in the region like Japan and Singapore, which I visited before, stay committed to the rules-based international order and provide more reliability between the middle powers of the world and all those who stay committed to the rules-based international order. A partnership between Australia and Germany, which is bearing fruit. You mentioned the space cooperation — both our countries seek and need to strengthen their military capabilities, not only in the traditional domains but also particularly in space. We have therefore put security in space high up on our agenda, and I’m very pleased to have you on our side. Over the next couple of years, we will invest in Germany more than 35 billion euros in space systems. Here, sensors, of course, play a critical role in space. China and Russia are our direct neighbours — they have enhanced their offensive capabilities in space, they are able to jam, blind or deploy kinetic energy weapons or to destroy satellites. This means we need to be aware of what is going on up there. This is the only way to protect our own systems, and to that end, we intend to establish an independent global network of surveyors and sensors. You could call it an early warning system for space, and today, we signed a letter of intent to make this happen. We are taking a huge leap forward. We are strengthening the space capabilities of both countries. Coming to Ukraine, Richard, we can really rely on each other. This also applies to supporting Ukraine. Even if public attention, unfortunately, is very much focused on the Middle East these days, much more than we are always aware of our responsibility for Ukraine, not only in Europe but beyond, as we all know, the consequences of this Russian war are not only felt in Europe. Here in the Indo-Pacific region as well, the war has repercussions for the balance of powers as well as for the security architecture. Richard, even though you are more than 10,000 kilometres away from where the war is happening, you are upholding your commitment to Ukraine. You are a member of the Ukraine Defence Contact Group, and you are the biggest military supporter of Ukraine outside of NATO. The training of Ukrainian service members in the UK plays a prominent role in this regard. We very much appreciate your commitment. This year, Germany will make approximately 11.5 billion euros available for Ukraine. But pressure on Russia must continue, even beyond military support. Putin hopes to take advantage of the war in the Middle East and the soaring oil prices. We must not allow this to happen if we want Russia to negotiate seriously. Effective sanctions are crucial. Easing the sanctions is a huge and dangerous mistake. They have to hit where they hurt Putin the most. Australia adopted its own sanctions packages early on, taking a clear stance. We are very grateful for that too. Australia is an important partner in so many respects. Australia plays a pivotal role during our Indo-Pacific deployments, and not just for our Navy. The Army took part in Talisman Sabre, and at the end of July, our Air Force will join the Pitch Black exercise with nine Eurofighters and refuelling aircraft. This is an unprecedented number. We are taking part in joint exercises so as to strengthen our mutual understanding as well as interoperability. This is also what we aim for when German pilots receive their training with you down under, Tornado weapon systems officers are being trained to become jet pilots. In turn, we do our part by dispatching a flight instructor. This is something both sides benefit from. Our close cooperation, of course, also includes armament projects. More than 100 of the new heavy weapon carriers for our infantry are being built in Australia. The first deliveries will take place as early as this year. Germany lacked the necessary capacities, therefore you are making an important contribution to the build-up of Bundeswehr material. I will get a first-hand impression in Brisbane tomorrow. When it comes to laser, today we are going to visit one of the companies that produce laser weapons. They are high-precision defence systems that can also be used for counter-drone measures. Laser weapons are able to detect and take out drones fast. They can find a large number of targets within a short period of time without losing time for reloading. We are exploring the whole market in order to find the best solutions for our armed forces. Australia boasts innovative development in the area of laser weapons too. Richard, thank you once more for the close and honest exchange and for the many joint projects. We are very much grateful for your hospitality and for the friendship and partnership between our countries and between the both of us. Our service members keep telling me how much they look forward to the exercises taking place in Australia. Going to the land down under is always something special, and that’s not just because of the weather. I’m glad to have experienced this for myself now for the first time. So thank you once more, and let’s go ahead!

MARLES: We have time for a few questions. Matt?

JOURNALIST: You spoke about Australian missile production, which the government has been starting, but looking at shortages of missiles in places like the US, is that going to change the way you’ll think about production here? Do we need to fast-track it? Do we need to expand the type of missiles that will be manufactured in Australia? And to the visiting Minister, you spoke about that we live in a time with less honesty and reliability. Could you give a German perspective on how Germany is seeing the Trump administration in that context, you know, within NATO, and is that encouraging you to look at cooperation with Australia, you know, in the Indo-Pacific beyond your NATO alliance?

MARLES: Well, firstly, thanks Matt for that question, and it’s a really good question. I think how we would see it is that it really puts the Guided Weapons and Explosive Ordnance enterprise into sharp relief, and the decision that we made in coming to office to invest in this and speed it up so that we commence manufacturing of missiles in Australia at the end of last year, which brought forward that by years in terms of what we inherited when we came to office, really is vindicated by what we are seeing in the world today. We need to be in the space of manufacturing missiles, but also heavy ordnance, 115s, in Australia, and we simply have to be doing that in order to make sure that we have the critical war stocks that we will need going forward. But also, we’re not a huge consumer of them, and so to make this work, we obviously need to be building an industry which is going to be exporting, and that we’re able to do. We are really pleased with the letter of cooperation that we’ll be signing tomorrow with TDW. It is a really important component in terms of the warheads that they will be contributing to the Joint Strike Missile, the Naval Strike Missile. So it is another step forward. But I think what’s going on in the world today just highlights how important this exercise is.

PISTORIUS: Thank you for that question. I try to be as diplomatic as I’m able to be. First remark is I learned very early in my life that it’s much better not to carry all eggs in one basket, and therefore what we all are learning now is to more diversify our relations, to reduce our dependencies, and to broaden the view of what on the world and what is going on. And the American, the Trump administration, is doing what we expected them to do. They challenged Europe, and they required from Europe to do more for its own conventional deterrence and defence. What we are doing, we are ramping up rapidly. I mentioned that earlier, Germany will reach 3.5% of GDP already in ’29, so we are doing a lot in Europe and within NATO. At the same time, we all expected, regardless who would have become president in the elections of November ’24, we all expected that the Americans would shift their focus more into the direction of the Indo-Pacific, which I’m not very much so yet whether it will remain like that. But anyway, we expected that to happen, and therefore we always said, okay, we are proceeding and taking more responsibility for our own security, while at the same time keeping the US aboard of NATO and our alliance, which is still going on. But at the same time, it’s obvious that the world’s politics are becoming more and more unpredictable, or, as I used to say, the unpredictability is even becoming more unpredictable every day, and that means we are well recommended not to focus all the time on what others are doing. What we should do is to focus on ourselves as those allies and partners who really rely on a rules-based international order, who are not superpowers but, well, very much stick together and know what it is about when we, if we don’t stay committed, if we don’t stick together, nobody else will do so. Therefore, it’s so crucial to broaden and to deepen and to strengthen all the alliances we already used to have for the future, and Australia, Germany, Japan, Singapore and other allies in the region are so important for us, for Europe, for the entire Europe. And at the same time, we don’t want to imagine a world without the United States as a reliable partner.

MARLES: So I think we’ve got a question from the German side.

JOURNALIST: Mr Minister, could you explain what is the relevance of the existing armament corporations for your country, and what is your expectations towards Germany for further steps? And for the German Minister — [remarks in German]

GERMAN MINISTER: [remarks in German]

MARLES: There’s actually a long history of German companies contributing to platforms of the Australian Defence Force, and in more recent times, Rheinmetall’s presence here has been really significant. The Boxers, the combat reconnaissance vehicles, which are being manufactured in Brisbane, are really central to how we conceive of the posture of our Army specifically. But we also do think that there is enormous opportunity for us to be working closely together with German industry, German defence industry, in respect of Guided Weapons and Explosive Ordnance. But I think, you know, beyond that, if we take a step back and look at the areas that we can cooperate in, defence industry is probably number one. We are looking for capability. There is nothing more capable than German engineering, and being able to work with a high-quality, reliable partner is profoundly important for Australia. So we are pleased with the degree of cooperation that we have in terms of defence industry to this point in time, but we really very much look to the future in terms of that expanding.

PISTORIUS: [remarks in German]

MARLES: SBS.

JOURNALIST: Welcome to Australia. The European Commission President von der Leyen really emphasised the importance of the role of the Indo-Pacific, particularly in the current global environment. What are your concerns around the potential for this current war with Iran and the US to possibly trigger movement of China in the region? And Minister Marles, your counterpart has been quite direct in his language around not getting involved in this war, and that Europe did not start this war with Iran and the US and so should not be involved. Does Australia still support this war and trust that Donald Trump is clear with his objectives in ending it?

PISTORIUS: To make it crystal clear, this war is a catastrophe for the world’s economies. The impact is absolutely evident already now, after a little bit more than two weeks. The closure of the Hormuz Strait has an impact for all the region in the Indo-Pacific, including Australia, but foremost especially for Japan, depending by more than 90% of imports via the Hormuz Strait - so this is a real impact. And at the same time, the European partners, and Germany as well, highlighted from the beginning on, we have not been consulted before. Nobody asked us before. It’s not our war, and therefore we don’t want to get sucked into that war, to make it crystal clear. And what we need is now a diplomatic solution as soon as possible. We need an end of shooting and killing, and that is addressed to the US, of course, but mainly to Iran, which is attacking its partners in the region, brother states like Emirates or Qatar or other countries. This is a real, huge risk for rising and increasing instability in the region, and that has always an impact, as we know from history, for the entire world. And therefore we are ready to secure any peace. If it comes to a point where we have a ceasefire, then we will discuss every kind of operation to secure the peace, to secure especially the freedom of navigation during the Hormuz Strait, but the time has not yet come, and therefore we appeal for a ceasefire as soon as possible.

MARLES: Well, perhaps let me start where Boris has just finished. I mean, we very much support efforts to achieve a peace, and, I mean, Boris has said that the economic impact for, obviously, our region but the world in respect of this conflict is there for people to see. I mean, clearly we support efforts to prevent Iran from acquiring a nuclear capability, and we very much condemn Iran in terms of the way in which it’s treated its own citizens, but the way in which it is attacking its neighbours, and we see Australia’s interest engaged in the defence of the countries of the Gulf. And our deployment of the E-7 was in response to a specific request from the United Arab Emirates, and that is because of our partnership with the UAE, where we have an operational headquarters, but it’s also because the UAE is hosting one of the largest expat populations of Australia in the world. And so that’s our interest. Australia’s national interest lies in the defence of the Gulf states, and that’s the interest that we are pursuing. And again, as Boris just said, at a point in time when conditions allow, we have signed up to the UK-led statement to look at ways in which we can provide for the opening of the Straits of Hormuz and the protection of that. But to come back to where I started, we support efforts to pursue a peace and to de-escalate this conflict.

MARLES: And finally, another from the German side.

JOURNALIST: [remarks in German]. Question for Secretary Marles. Australia chose Japan over Germany with regards to its frigate program, a decision widely seen as rather strategic than technological. Why should Germany still see itself as a meaningful partner in the Indo-Pacific, and how far could this cooperation really go without complicating Australia’s rather delicate relationship with China even further?

PISTORIUS: [remarks in German]

MARLES: I very much thank Boris for his remarks. Look, in respect of the frigates, we make decisions based on our particular capability needs, but it’s not a reflection of the quality of German frigates, which obviously are of the highest quality. So I’d want to make that clear. But it was a particular capability need that we had, and that led to the choice that we made. And obviously we are very comfortable and excited about the frigates that we will be acquiring. But more generally, we really welcome Germany’s presence in the Indo-Pacific. And as Boris has just said, there’s not an expectation that Germany is going to suddenly make the Indo-Pacific its focus. Germany is a country in the middle of Europe, and we totally understand that, but I think it goes to what Boris has just said and the importance of reinforcing the rules-based order. And actually, I think in this moment, it matters that we are talking about the rules-based order. It’s under pressure around the world, and there’s not many rules-based orders, there’s one, and when it’s under challenge in Europe, that is relevant to the Indo-Pacific and vice versa. And so to have a country where we share values, but we share a commitment to the rules-based order, seeking to play a part in the Indo-Pacific, I mean, that is deeply welcome, and it is much more than symbolic. I mean, to have the German presence at Talisman Sabre last year, to have a German presence at Exercise Pitch Black this year, had German maritime assets in the Indo-Pacific, all of that is really critical. As we understand, our support for Ukraine is critical, and for us to maintain that support in Europe, and we, again, our focus is on the Indo-Pacific, it’s not Europe, but it matters that we are playing our part in Ukraine. And I think, you know, we can have the nuance to understand that we, you know, without it being our primary area of focus, an intelligent way of pursuing our focus is, in fact, to understand the connectedness of our two regions and to play our part in our respective regions, and in that sense, Germany is not only welcome, it is deeply valued in the Indo-Pacific. And I think the visit of Boris here today we see as a very, very significant moment. As I’m literally just saying, Boris, as we were walking down the corridor, in a challenging world, I fundamentally feel safer having had the kind of conversation that we’ve had today. This cooperation really matters, and it gives me a sense of comfort that Boris has come here having met with our Japanese counterpart, Shinzo Koizumi, having visited Singapore and met with the Defence Minister and the Prime Minister there — this is all really important, and so Germany's presence is deeply valued. 

Ends