Television Interview, ABC News

SUBJECTS: Veterans’ and families’ hubs, Defence Force recruitment, Sexual violence in the Defence Force.

GREG JENNETT, COMPARE: Minister, thank you very much for your presentation. I know it will give rise to plenty of questions. I have more than a few myself so I might lead off before throwing over to the colleagues. You did spend a bit of time referencing veteran and family wellbeing, which takes us to, in fact, one of the recommendations agreed to but I think not yet implemented by the Royal Commission. Recommendation 86 concerned funding security, funding guarantees, for Veterans’ and Families’ Hubs. Now, we’ve heard the news nationally today from Townsville that the Oasis Townsville, which, as I understand it, was a founding veterans’ and families’ hub in this country, will close its doors in 10 days because it lacks that funding certainty and has actually been on a decline path for some time already. I think – correct me if I’m wrong – but were a funding guarantee to be provided by DVA, that would give it the certainty to continue. Alas, it hasn’t come to pass. Will you commit today to intervening as minister to direct a more permanent or at least a guaranteed source of funding for that particular facility? 

MATT KEOGH, MINISTER FOR VETERANS’S AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL: Thanks, Greg. So the first thing I really want to say about that is for any veterans that are in or around Townsville that access services and supports there that there is also the Mates4Mates in Townsville and some other services. So it’s important to recognise the breadth of services to make sure that our veterans are well supported in what is one of our primary garrison cities in Australia. In respect to Oasis itself, they were one of the original hubs. It was funded by the previous government on the basis that they would then work towards a sustainable funding model for themselves. Subsequent to that they’ve really been operating off funding that they’ve received from the Queensland state government to run – to provide some specific services. A few weeks ago, they got in touch with us around requiring some additional funding. They provided us with some information and DVA has been engaging with Oasis around what pathway forward may look like. So I was disappointed to see that email given that engagement. But we’ll continue to engage with Oasis about what that may involve. 

JENNETT: Okay, so is there a disconnect in timing here? Are you suggesting that there may be a funding solution that could head off this imminent closure? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, we need to work with Oasis to see what the root of their financial position and their service delivery model is going to be going forward so that we can work through them with that. More broadly – 

JENNETT: Over what time frame? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, we need to continue to engage, as I said. We – they’d only contacted us a few weeks ago to say that – to – with a call for funding from the Commonwealth Government right now. And we’ll work through that with them. 

JENNETT: Okay. Would it be regretful if it were to close, as intended, in 10 days? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, certainly I think the promise of the Oasis centre was a very good one. And I visited the Oasis Centre shortly after I became the Minister to see the sorts of service offering they have, as well as visiting – I’ve visited many of the other services that are available to support our veteran community through Townsville, as I have around Australia. We’ll make sure that we engage with them if there’s a sustainable option going forward. 

JENNETT: Okay. Enough from me. Let’s go to AAP, Tess Ikonomou is with us today. 

JOURNALIST: Thank you very much for your time, Minister. You’ve just touched on the importance of accountability and how sexual violence in the military is unacceptable. Why, then, is the government trying to exclude incidents that occurred on international deployments from the class action currently in court? 

MINISTER KEOGH: So, the first thing I need to say about the class action that’s in court is. It’s in court today, so I can’t really comment on the specifics of what’s come up today or how those arguments are being presented. 

JOURNALIST: But you’re the commonwealth. You’re the government trying to make sure that this cannot be included within the scope. 

MINISTER KEOGH: I’m not aware of that. And also it’s not a matter that’s being run by Defence; it’s being run by Comcover. But that’s the first I’ve heard of that. But I’m happy to look into it. 

JOURNALIST: Does the government consider sexual misconduct only unacceptable when it occurs within Australia? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Sexual misconduct in our Defence Force is unacceptable wherever it occurs. I’m very clear on that. 

JENNETT: Just before we get to the next question, since it’s in sequence here, you did have a very pointed message to perpetrators in your presentation – if you engage in sexual violence presume you no longer have a job. You’ve indicated you’ll give legislative backing to an order of the day from the CDF. Why is that legislation necessary? What deficiency or ambiguity will it address? 

MINISTER KEOGH: It will address an issue around how the current process is set out under Defence regulations for the termination of a member of the Defence Force. In order to deal with that process there’s currently a legislative provision for a presumption of termination in relation to the taking of illegal drugs. This would be able to give the similar force to a presumption in these cases as well, which requires legislation to make sure that it works through all the necessary procedural steps. 

JENNETT: So, have there been cases where termination has not been possible because it lacked this legislative force? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Usually it’s not necessary that it’s not possible, but we want to make sure that we are being, one, very clear about meeting all the procedural requirements and that that’s got legislative force. It also sends a very clear message as the provisions that are currently in the legislation do in respect of using illegal drugs that that will not be tolerated and the presumption is you are leaving. 

JENNETT: Right. Andrew Greene from The Nightly. 

JOURNALIST: Minister, earlier this year at the Reference Day ceremony the former RSL President, Greg Melick bemoaned the enthusiasm of modern generation ADF and possibly have to fight for their country. I was hoping for a response to those comments. And if Greg will indulge a second question: related to recruitment Papua New Guinean recruitment efforts there, what are you doing? Are you going to be using the providers that we use in Australia or will you be relying on the PNG government itself to be doing that recruiting? 

MINISTER KEOGH: So to your first question, what I’m really pleased to see is not only that we’ve been able to recruit more people than we have in the last 15 years in the last year, we’ve seen the number of applications increasing, and in some cases steadily increasing in the case of navy, which is wonderful. Which says to me that the criticism or the concern that the former President of the RSL raised is not borne out in the numbers. We’re seeing more and more people applying to join our Defence Force, and I’m really pleased to see that. 

In terms of recruitment from PNG, we’ll be adopting a similar approach that we’re taking for permanent residents from other Five Eyes countries initially. So that will involve – well, for people who are already permanent residents here in Australia, have been here for a year, they will be able to apply to join the Defence Force and that will be a pathway to citizenship for them because we do require people who join our Defence Force to become an Australian citizen. They have to meet all the other ordinary usual tests and checks, as you would expect. We will then – in terms of what may happen beyond that, we’re still working through how that would operate with PNG. 

JENNETT: All right, I’ll indicate to Andrew and others if time permits, we’ll loop around and we might come back for more later. But in the meantime, Noah Yim is with us from The Australian. 

JOURNALIST: Hi, Minister. 

MINISTER KEOGH: Hi, Noah. 

JOURNALIST: In the last financial year there were 215 reported alleged sexual offences in the ADF. I recognise that you’ve led out some action on this front today, but do you think the problem has been getting worse under your watch? And what’s missing in the response here? 

MINISTER KEOGH: So, I don’t think the situation has been getting worse, but it’s certainly not an acceptable situation that we’re confronting now. Some of those reports that were made in that last financial year do relate to historical events, so they didn’t all occur necessarily in that year. And that needs to be taken into account. But frankly, one is too many. We don’t want to see this happening at all in our Defence Force. I don’t think we want to see this happening at all in our society, and that’s why it’s clear on those statistics and many others that there’s still work that we need to do, and we’ll keep doing that. 

JENNETT: From the ABC, Laura Levelle is here. 

JOURNALIST: Hello.

MINISTER KEOGH: Hello. 

JOURNALIST: Just a question about the sexual violence inquiry. We know this isn’t the first time this issue has been under the microscope. There was the Broderick report more than a decade ago, the IGADF inquiry in 2021 and, of course, a major focus as well of the royal commission. And, in fact, the royal commission also found that while moving to implement the recommendations of the previous report it was a failing to deliver deep systemic change. My question is: how is this inquiry going to be different, and can you promise it will deliver deep, systemic, meaning full outcomes? 

MINISTER KEOGH: So I think what the opportunity that the royal commission was looking for is from its broad survey – and we saw this in the lead-up to the royal commission – was that there had been many inquiries and [indistinct] that were feeding into defence and veteran suicide and suicidality, and not all of those recommendations had been implemented or, if they had been implemented not in full or they weren’t meeting the underlying need that needed to be addressed. And that was a key part of what the royal commission in whole was looking to address. 

What it is – and that is similar for this sexual violence inquiry that it called for, is recognising there has been those previous inquiries, that some of that work has happened but it hasn’t necessarily resulted in the cultural change that is required. One of the things I referred to early in my speech was about the need to make sure that there’s a degree of accountability and transparency in what we’re doing in Defence in addressing these issues. So, a key part of that is with the cultural blueprint which has Defence has released, that there’s accountabilities for Defence leadership on those things being implemented, we’re seeing that cultural change. 

The other thing is making reports like we did in the annual report that was just published, being very clear and transparent about what the reports are that we’re seeing, what those statistics are. We’re not hiding that. We know we need to get about dealing with it. 

JENNETT: Laura, thank you. Melissa Coade is with us from The Mandarin. 

JOURNALIST: Hi, Minister. Thanks for your talk. You gave a really good example for department capability of claims processing backlog and how the government better resourced the department. I wonder if you can speak to capability of another kind in the department. So last year a capability review at DVA highlighted that delivery was being impacted by a shortage of enterprise-wide strategic policy capability. Which really was impacted by the fact that DVA and, as I’m sure you’d appreciate in your portfolio, it operates in this world of reaction and the everchanging cohort of veterans that you need to service, the needs they need they’re complex, they’re changing, they’re evolving. Why is enterprise-wide strategic policy capability important for DVA, and how do we make sure that that’s not a political football, if you will, that changes as the wind blows and different governments of the day come in and out? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Sure. I think it’s important across government full stop, not just DVA. But one of the issues that we see, as you mentioned, DVA can be somewhat reactive. And that’s why drawing together the working relationship between Defence and DVA is really important. Being able to work not just on treatment and rehabilitation but also prevention, being able to understand what’s evolving in Defence so that we can understand how that may also impact on what we need to make available to best support or veterans and families going forward. That’s a capability that we are certainly growing in DVA. You can’t get about implementing a thing like the royal commission recommendations without doing that and doing that in a way that’s coordinated with Defence as well. 

I think one of the things that has happened over time where previous governments have been so reliant on the use of external consultants to do work in the public service is it’s meant that some of our best and brightest graduates who want to do great public policy work have decided to go work for consultants instead of in the public service. The work that we’ve done to bring more of that work in house, whether that’s in the work we’re doing in DVA and being able to strategically plan, whether it’s the work we’re doing in terms of procurement management and design in the restructuring work we’re doing in the Department of Defence, making sure that’s in-house capability, a sovereign capability, is incredibly important. And you’ll see that we’re doing that across so many different areas of government. 

JENNETT: Nick Stuart from Ability News. 

JOURNALIST: Thanks. The first question was about operational deployments. And the issue with these is that, of course, we’ve got army, navy and air force being deployed. We also have particularly now days where you’ve got fluid lines of operation, different organisations such as, for example, the AFP, such as the diplomats, aid workers, others operating very much at the forefront of the desire that Australia has to implement change to the operational environment overseas. But they’re all under different conditions of, you know, if they have an injury or some other accident. Do you see a means of bringing particularly in operational areas all those groups together so that it won’t matter if you happen to be a diplomat and receive a wound of some sort of or another or if you happen to be a soldier and receive a wound of some sort or another, so that we’ll get a general approach to providing genuine support to people who are deployed overseas working in Australia’s interests? 

MINISTER KEOGH: So, I think, you know, you’re very right to recognise that we have not just our defence forces deployed and deployed overseas but we have DFAT officials around the world all the time. We have AFP operating in difficult environments supporting our neighbours and partners in many different ways. They are all done on a [Indistinct] with those partners. And the key thing here and why we have a military compensation and rehabilitation system is because of the very unique nature of military service. At one level and doing some tasks may look very similar and you may have all of those different organisations you described working shoulder to shoulder on some tasks. There are other tasks where it is the people in uniform that are doing something very unique on behalf of our nation in the most risky environments. And that’s why we have a specialised system to support our Defence Force but also ensuring that it covers the full gamut of operation of work that is done by our Defence Force. 

JOURNALIST: But if a diplomat, for example, is severely injured in Uruzgan Province and they have been operating – effectively living in the forward operating base and then they lose their mobility because of a bomb and they’ve been working alongside deployed with Australian forces, shouldn’t at that point it be exactly the same situation – that they are receiving not merely support from an organisation like foreign affairs, which isn’t designed to provide extra support when they return to Australia, but so that they can get the benefits of other ancillary services, rehabilitation services that are being provided for a bigger organisation like the military? 

MINISTER KEOGH: And they have access to rehabilitation and compensation through the existing public service system. And I'm not diminishing the point that you’re making about their service, and we really need our people to sign up and join DFAT and do that work, and the AFP who work not just here but around the globe as well on different things. But there is a unique nature to military service that is materially different. That is why it has a separate scheme. 

JENNETT: Let’s bring in Naziya Alvi from Epoch Times

JOURNALIST: Hi, Matt. You did mention, that, you know, you will be expanding health services for the veterans in rural areas. But I would like to understand how exactly will that be done. Also, is the government considering broadening access to gold card services? 

MINISTER KEOGH: In terms of the footprint around Australia, at the moment DVA has veteran access networks, we have Open Arms offices in certain places, and we’ve also got the build out and expansion of our veterans’ and families’ hubs in different places around Australia. And there’s an opportunity with the new veteran and family wellbeing agency that we will be establishing to better coordinate all three of those different types of service delivery to make sure that we can best utilise the footprint that that gives us – makes available to us. 

And when you look at DVA as an organisation, whether it’s across the veteran access network or across Open Arms or the veterans’ and families’ hubs, they’re not just in capital cities; they are in our garrison cities, they’re in our garrison towns, they’re in other parts of Australia where we have significant Defence Force presences. And that’s how we’ll be making that available through that footprint. 

You asked about expansion to the gold card? 

JOURNALIST: Yeah, gold card services. 

MINISTER KEOGH: So, one of the things about the changes that we’ve made through the VETS act is that it does open up accessibility to the gold card to a range of veterans who were previously covered under what’s called the DRCA who never had access to the gold card. They were excluded from assess to the gold card. It will mean that veterans that have been covered by that piece of legislation, if they have new claims or exacerbation of claims from the 1st of July next year onwards they will have the ability to make a claim under the new enhanced MRCA which may, depending on their level of impairment, mean that they’re able to access gold cards as well. 

JOURNALIST: Thank you. 

JENNETT: Right, we are tracking pretty well for time, so our news hounds will get another crack at you, Minister, in just a moment. 

MINISTER KEOGH: Don’t tell me that. 

JENNETT: I’m – 

MINISTER KEOGH: Greg said I should have longer answers. That’s what I heard. Okay. 

JENNETT: I’ll come back with one of my own, though. You have referenced record levels of retention, I suppose, at least a decline in separations. How much do you credit the $40,000 continuation bonus to that outcome? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, certainly we’ve had really good uptake of the continuation bonuses, especially the first tranche of those bonuses, something like 79 per cent take-up. And we’ve also got people that have told us that they don’t want to necessarily take that up, but they’re staying in. And so that is making a big difference. But it’s not just that. Certainly in the work that I’ve done as minister I’ve had the great opportunity of being able to visit serving personnel on bases all across Australia and, indeed, overseas, and one of the things I try to do when I talk to them is talk about what are the little friction points, what are the little things that are just niggling at you that aren’t the thing that make you go, “That’s it, I’m out” but over time they either cause frustration to them or their families and result in them eventually leaving. Now, people will eventually leave Defence, we know that. But the way in which – the more that we can make those situations better, like improving the flexibility to Defence Housing, for example, giving people more notice about where they’re going to post to so they can make sure they can find a home and get access to enrol in a school, all of those things add up. And so that’s what we’ve been doing through the implementation of our Defence and veteran family support strategy, which then means that we’re better able to retain people in the ADF. 

JENNETT: I don’t want to focus unduly on the continuation bonus, but I wonder if it’s targeted to those it should be targeting – junior officers, who I think typically with five to 10 years in, ASPI’s analysis of the portfolio budget statements actually have Defence going backwards against the targets there – 28 was the projected increase, they’ve gone backwards by 442. So, the question is: could the bonus be better directed there? 

MINISTER KEOGH: So, the bonus is targeted around when people finish their mandatory obligation of service period, so they stack on top of each other to meet those particular timings. And it means that they match up with the times that we see the most significant point of departure from the Defence Force. And so that’s what we’re targeting with the way in which those continuation bonuses are timed. 

With the second tranche of that, that will start to have even more impact over the next few years as well. So, we are seeing the impact that we want. We always want to have a better impact. But when you see that that separation rate is at an all-time low basically and certainly significantly lower than not just the long-term average, but what we saw when we came into government, the continuation bonuses, the other changes we’ve made are clearly making a difference. 

JENNETT: Okay. Let’s go back to Tess Ikonomou. 

JOURNALIST: Thank you, again. Just on the proposed changes to the Defence honours and awards system, are you able to explain why the changes are needed when members of your own government couldn’t back them after a parliamentary inquiry? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, I think what we saw with the consideration of that legislation was that whilst there was agreement that there was a number of changes that were accepted and seen as useful changes to make to modernise the operation of the tribunal, there were some areas that some of in the veteran community needed to be worked through in more detail with them with a greater degree of [indistinct]. That’s what the Senate inquiry found, and that’s what we’ve committed to. 

JOURNALIST: But the inquiry didn’t back in the 20-year limit in particular. It just said to go back, do further consultation then make a decision at the end of that after it’s all been made public. 

MINISTER KEOGH: And that’s what we said we’d do. 

JOURNALIST: Thank you. 

JENNETT: Andrew Greene will have another shot. 

MINISTER KEOGH: He’s already had two. 

JOURNALIST: A single question, though. Minister, can you confirm that within Defence Force recruiting navy recruits who are transgender are being discouraged from applying for the nuclear stream because of possible conflict with the Pentagon’s so-called war on woke and anti-DEI policies? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Certainly, you know, we’re aware that there’s particular policy approaches that have been taken in the United States, and we need to have an awareness of that in terms of how we engage. But we’re also really committed to, you know, our approach to supporting our defence people in every way. And that’s what we’re absolutely committed to doing and working with them to best support their welfare and whatever decisions of postings or training or roles, whichever they choose to make. 

JOURNALIST: So, what would your message be to a transgender recruit who is looking to join the AUKUS, the US nuclear-powered submarine program? 

MINISTER KEOGH: I’d give them the same message I’d give to everyone who even has the vaguest of interest in joining the Defence Force, which is please come and join our nuclear submarine program or any other program of the over 300 different roles that we have in the Defence Force. 

JOURNALIST: And there is no formal guidance in the department? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, I’m not aware of the specific issue that you’re speaking to, Andrew, but we are always seeking to encourage people of all backgrounds to join our Defence Force because we want to see a Defence Force that reflects Australia. That’s how we have a defence force that’s in the best position to protect our national interest. 

JENNETT: Now, Noah Yim from The Australian will get us close to time. We’ll see how we go, Noah. 

JOURNALIST: Thank you, Minister. On mild traumatic brain injuries, in September you said that you were working on a comprehensive brain injury program. Earlier you said you were undertaking work on this. Do you now accept that mTBI is a workplace health and safety issue in the ADF? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, no-one’s ever denied that there’s a concern around the impact of mild – you know, continual, repetitive blast exposure or brain trauma. And the work that’s being led by Chief [indistinct] around that work is incredibly important and it involves not just people in Defence, it involves DVA, it involves external experts as well. 

What we need to work through, there’s a whole range of different areas of work that’s happening there and we’re working with our, you know, partner militaries that have done research and work on this as well as, you know, being able to benefit from our own research that we’re conducting. There are difficulties in being able to assess necessarily levels of impact, and that’s where we need to continue to do more research so that we can best calibrate our safety requirements, so that we can best set our usage requirements, so that we can make sure that we are best protecting our people not just in this area but in every area of defence work. 

JOURNALIST: But when might we hear about – when might veterans and serving soldiers be able to hear about the outcome of that research? 

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, they’re seeing [indistinct] the limits that are in place now in terms of the use of particular weapons and certain training regimes that occur. And that will be continually refined and improved as we benefit from the research and work that we are doing as well as being able to learn from the work that are being done by other defence forces in this area as well. 

JOURNALIST: Thank you, Minister. 

JENNETT: A cheeky final one from me as we wrap up. It’s very much on the periphery of your prepared remarks today, but it does later to something the Acting Prime Minister made us aware of yesterday. This is the PLA Navy Taskgroup that is in the Philippines Sea. You are privy to briefings from what is a very large Defence organisation, I acknowledge. But what assets are being prepared or are Defence assets being prepared to shadow that flotilla if it became clear that it was heading south through the seas of Indonesia, PNG or Solomon Islands? 

MINISTER KEOGH: I think the Deputy Prime Minister was pretty clear on that yesterday that that’s not a level of detail to which we disclose. 

JENNETT: I still thought you might – 

MINISTER KEOGH: But good try, Greg. Good try. 

JENNETT: A cheeky one from me, that’s for sure. Look, it’s a big body of work, as you acknowledged at the outset, in your own portfolio. Matt Keogh, will you please thank the minister for updating us today.

END