Television Interview, Today

SUBJECTS: Henderson Defence Precinct; Defence Spending; Victorian Government; Polls

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: More now on the government's $12 billion boost to the AUKUS agreement. Joining us live from Perth is Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles. Richard, good morning to you. Early bird catches the worm, huh? Nice and early over there.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: That is definitely the case here in Perth.

STEFANOVIC: Thanks for joining us. Look, is a little fancy accounting going to move, going to be enough to move the needle on defence for the US?

MARLES: Well, look what we've done yesterday, Karl is announce $12 billion to build a critically important Defence precinct for Australia. And that's the basis upon the announcement yesterday and the decisions that we've been making. It comes off having announced exploratory funding that we did in October of last year. But the Henderson Defence Precinct is going to be central to continuous naval shipbuilding here in Perth. It's also going to be the basis upon which we sustain and maintain our future submarines. And that is critically important for the country.

STEFANOVIC: Let me just get it straight though. So, defence spending was at around 2 per cent. Now it's at 2.8 per cent, but only under NATO standards, which takes into account, quote, relevant activities. Can you just explain that a little more for us?

MARLES:  Well, I mean that people are fixated on the GDP figure and we are not. So, let me be clear about that. What we're focusing on is the actual dollars that you spend on defence. And we've been making that clear. There's no hiding anything here. Since we've come to government, we've increased our defence spending over the decade by $70 billion. Now, a whole lot of people can go up and do a whole lot of calculations based on what you include and what you don't. NATO, when it does its calculations of percentages of GDP for defence, if you use that criteria, before yesterday's announcement, we were at 2.8 per cent, and the only point we're really making is that those numbers jump around-

STEFANOVIC: Yeah.

MARLES: What doesn't, is that the dollars that you spend and that's what we’re focused on. What we announced yesterday was significant dollars.

STEFANOVIC: It does sound like a new criteria though. Something like something Colin from accounts came up with magically to appease the U.S.

MARLES:  Well, it's not. I mean, what we saw at NATO earlier in- a couple of months ago was NATO committing to 3.5 per cent of GDP, that was the, the guidelines that they were using and all we're saying is that if you use those same guidelines in relation to our spending, it's actually at 2.8. But we're not really focused on that. We're focused on the dollars that we're actually spending on defence. And when you look at what we have done, we have dramatically increased Australia's defence spending over the course of the last three years. It is the biggest peacetime increase in Australia's defence spending in Australia's history- 

STEFANOVIC: I guess, I guess the point is, if it was such a good idea, why weren't we doing it before now?

MARLES: Well, what we've, we've never been focused on what percentage of GDP, and we have always articulated this in the context of the dollars that we are spending. And when you look at any announcement that we ever make, it is about what dollars we are spending. That's when we did the Surface Fleet review, we talked about the dollars when we did the National Defence Strategy against the dollars. When we go to the budget, it is the dollars.

STEFANOVIC: A couple of quick ones. Should Jacinta Allan be heading to Beijing?

MARLES: Well, obviously that's a matter for Jacinta Allan. And look, you know, China is a complex relationship. From a Federal Government point of view, we do want to have the most productive relationship we can have with China. They are obviously a security- a national security anxiety- but the Prime Minister was in China over the last couple of months. It was important in terms of doing what we need to, to get trade going again and, and trying to have the most productive relationship that we can have. It is a matter of treating this relationship with the complexity that it deserves. And, and Jacinta Allan’s trip is a matter for her.

STEFANOVIC: Okay. Permanent migration is too high according to 1 in 2 voters. Are you going to fix that?

MARLES: Well, we've got permanent, the permanent migration rate at the same level. That's what we are taking forward and that's based on all the consultations that one would normally do and particularly with state governments, it's focused on skilled migration to make sure that we have the skills that we need for our economy. But I'd also make this point, Karl, in the aftermath of the pandemic, the net overseas migration number has come down by 37 per cent in the 12 months to the end of 2024. So, you know, the migration number, the overall migration number in the aftermath of the pandemic is coming down. But the permanent migration rate is an important contributor to our economy, it always has been. And we always go through a consultative process to pick that number.

STEFANOVIC: A lot of numbers moving around this morning on this Monday morning. I mean, it could be worse. You could have Sussan Ley's numbers.

MARLES: Well, I mean, there are those numbers, but in terms of the polls- but this is going to be the typical politician answer: we genuinely are not really interested in the polls, particularly given that it's just a few months ago that we had an election. I mean, they really aren’t particularly relevant numbers in terms of what we're thinking about. All right.

STEFANOVIC: Always good to talk to you, Richard. Thanks for getting up early for us. Appreciate it, Sarah.

ENDS