Television Interview, Sunrise

SUBJECTS: Henderson Defence Precinct; Defence Spending

NATALIE BARR, HOST: Australia is sweetening the deal for America to deliver nuclear submarines by announcing a new $12 billion Defence Precinct in Perth where the United States could maintain its own fleet. The military boost comes ahead of an anticipated meeting between our Prime Minister and President Trump with the multibillion dollar AUKUS deal still under review by our military allies. For more, Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles joins me now. Good morning to you. Will this save AUKUS?

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, AUKUS is proceeding at a pace and AUKUS is proceeding well, Nat- 

BARR: But under investigation by the Pentagon.

MARLES: Well, there is a review in America which we welcome. Just as there was a review when the new British government came into power last year, just as we undertook a review when we came to office back in 2022. It's a natural step for an incoming government to take to work out how you can do AUKUS better. But when in every conversation I've had with my counterparts in the United States, including recently when I was in Washington, people have been really positive about what AUKUS represents for Australia. But what AUKUS represents for the United States, because this is in the strategic interests of the US- it does provide the US with an opportunity to operate from HMAS Stirling, south of Perth. The Henderson Defence Precinct that we announced yesterday is going to be an invaluable source of sustainment and maintenance of nuclear powered submarines going forward. That's really important in terms of getting more of our allied submarines into the water, more sea days. And this is exactly what America wants. So, I'm sure this will be welcomed by the US but fundamentally this is a really important decision for Australia.

BARR: So, the US has said we want Australia and other countries to lift defence spending by 3.5 per cent of gross domestic product. This doesn't go there, it lifts it by $12 billion. So, when you're in the US recently, did you sort of cut a deal behind the scenes and say, look, will 12 billion do it? And they said, yep, that should be fine because it's not 3.5 per cent of GDP.

MARLES: Well, obviously none of that happened in the meetings I had in the US. Look, the way in which we've gone about funding our defence force is to look at what Australia needs, look at our strategic challenges, the kind of defence force we need to meet that and then resourcing it. And we've been very clear with the US about how we've been going about this and that process, now, if you include what we announced yesterday, is seeing an additional $70 billion over the decade being spent on defence relative to when we came to government back in 2022. And that in turn is the biggest peacetime increase in Australia's defence spending in our history. And that actually is a story which is under in the United States, but-

BARR: It’s big but nowhere near what the US wants. So, they're okay with that?

MARLES: Well, again, I mean people say lines like that. I actually don't accept that-

BARR: Well, they have said they want 3.5. This isn't that.

MARLES: Well, people can focus on a number. We saw the Coalition- 

BARR: Well it is Trump saying a number. 

MARLES: Do that at the last election and throw out a number. And then they were asked to. Yeah, but if I can just finish. I mean the Coalition did this at the last election, and then, you know, when they get the first question about what they'll spend it on, they actually couldn't answer it- that's not what we do. We are thinking about the defence capabilities that our country needs. And actually that's what America is thinking about as well. It's what every country does when they think about how to engage in their own defence spending- what are the capabilities that they need? And then they go off and fund them. Now, you know, you can come up with a GDP number and it depends on how you calculate it. I mean, based on the NATO calculations, for example, before yesterday's announcement, our spending of GDP was at 2.8 per cent of GDP, based on the NATO calculations. We will be focused on how we- what kind of defence force we need and we will go and resource it- the Prime Minister has been very clear about that. And that's a method that I think is well understood by the United States and they can see that it is yielding results in Australia.

BARR: Okay, so is the Prime Minister going to meet Trump next week?

MARLES: Say that again, Nat. Sorry, you cut out.

BARR: Is the Prime Minister going to have a face to face with President Trump?

MARLES: Oh, look, I'm not going to speculate on that. I'm sure at some point in the, in the not too distant future, there will be a meeting between our two leaders. As you know, they spoke on the telephone just a few days ago and that's- and they've spoken on the telephone on a number of occasions. I'm sure at some point you will see a meeting between our two leaders. But what I would say is that, you know, there's been deep engagement, as you would expect, between Australia and the United States since Donald Trump was inaugurated as the President of the US and we are very positive about the way that relationship is going in a defence sense. But also, you know, we're looking at how we can do more economically, more in terms of investing in each other's countries and that is proceeding well also.

BARR: Okay. Richard Marles, thank you very much for your time.

MARLES: Thanks, Nat.

ENDS