Television Interview, ABC News Breakfast

SUBJECTS: PNG; ADF Recruitment; Defence Cooperation with the Pacific; Climate Change; Electorate Offices.

JAMES GLENDAY, HOST: We’re joined now by the Defence Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles, who is in Perth this morning. Richard, welcome back to the program.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, James. How are you?

GLENDAY: I'm very well, thank you. This part of the world is a very, very beautiful place. Hard to be unhappy up here. I wanted to take you to this defence pact. Now, I know it's not going to be announced until later in the week, but the PNG Defence Minister says this is about total integration of the PNG and Australian militaries. Would you describe it in those terms?

MARLES: Look, this is a transformational agreement between ourselves and PNG. It most certainly is. And I really want to credit Billy Joseph and the Government of Papua New Guinea, who have brought so much ambition to this discussion. When we started in January of this year updating what was quite an old Status of Forces Agreement dating back to 1977, we really thought we were giving it a refresh. But actually, over the course of the last few months, we have really done a very significant agreement that we've very excited about signing in the next couple of days. And it does see a transformation in terms of our defence relationship which befits the fact that we are doing more exercises together, we are operating more together, we are working closely together, and it's a very exciting agreement that we'll be signing.

GLENDAY: So, just in terms of the term transformational, does it mean that if PNG is involved in a conflict, Australia will as well and vice versa?

MARLES: Look, I don't want to pre-empt what we will be announcing in the next couple of days. The Prime Minister will be signing this agreement, so we'll speak more about it over the next couple of days. But it really is, you know, as significant a defence agreement as we've signed, obviously with Papua New Guinea, but if you look at the suite of defence agreements that we have with countries around the world, it really stands up there as being one of the most significant that we have ever signed. It'll be historic in its terms and we are very much looking forward to that moment.

GLENDAY: Okay, just stepping slightly away from the details of the agreement, a big problem for the Australian Defence Force has been recruitment over a number of years now. How many PNG citizens do you expect to join the military and even join the Australian military as a result of this?

MARLES: Well, we opened up the Defence Force to non‑Australian citizens last year when we firstly did so with New Zealand and then Five Eyes countries and at the time we said we would have an eye to the Pacific. The agreement that we will sign with PNG contemplates this. There's more work to be done in terms of walking down that path, but we certainly are interested in how we can recruit Papua New Guineans directly into the ADF. This is going to take time to bring to fruition. So, it's way too early to talk about numbers yet. But you know, this is something that we see as a real potential. I mean obviously PNG is a big country. It's more than twice the size of New Zealand. And there is an opportunity I think here and it's something that PNG has been interested in. So, we will continue that conversation and we have a sense of optimism about the specific arrangement in terms of what it will mean for Papua New Guineans serving in the ADF.

GLENDAY: Do you have an idea what sort of message you'd like to send with this agreement to the rest of the Pacific? As you say, PNG is the second largest country in Oceania after Australia. Do you hope this could be the first of many deals with other near neighbours in the Pacific Islands?

MARLES: Well, firstly, like it's a defence agreement. So, there's not many countries in the Pacific which have a defence force – PNG is one, Fiji is another, Tonga, obviously New Zealand. But beyond that there aren't countries in the Pacific which have defence forces, so firstly this is limited to those countries. And we'll continue to have conversations with Fiji for example, and with Tonga about how we advance our defence cooperation agreements with those two countries. We have agreements which go to questions of security already with countries like Tuvalu, with Nauru and there was reporting last week in terms of the agreement that we're seeking to move forward with in respect to Vanuatu. So, we are upgrading our relationships, our agreements with countries around the Pacific and that does go questions of security.

GLENDAY: Climate change is of course the issue for a number of our nearest neighbours. When you go to them and you try to do deals on defence and things like that, do they bring up the Northwest Shelf decision of last week? Do they bring up Australia's gas export industry?

MARLES: Well, you're right that climate change is a fundamentally important issue for the countries of the Pacific. You know, I've long said that it's– really the entry into any conversation with our neighbours in the Pacific is to be talking about, firstly, what we are doing in terms of reducing our own emissions and having a credible pathway forward to net zero by 2050, but also the way in which we play our role in helping them tell their story as countries which are on the front line of the effects of climate change. I think when you– it's less about any specific decision that's made in Australia and more about looking at what our intent is. And I think what the countries of the Pacific see when they look at our government since we've come to power, is a government which is taking climate change action very seriously, which does have a credible pathway forward in terms of reducing our emissions, and is playing our part in helping the Pacific tell its story, particularly through our bid to host COP. So, actually, there's a positive response to what we're doing in relation to climate change action.

GLENDAY: Just to jump in there, though, and I do acknowledge, of course, COP and then the talks that the Prime Minister has just held. Do some of these resources, decisions, particularly decisions to extend projects like the Northwest Shelf, make it harder, though, to then do these defence cooperation deals in the Pacific?

MARLES: Well, again, I think it's less about specific decisions. I mean, we can obviously go into the point about gas being an important transition energy source as we move to net zero. I mean, countries in the Pacific understand all of those nuances and how we move towards net zero. But really, what they see in our government is a government which is serious about climate change action. And that is important in terms of the overall relationship. I mean, we talk about our economic relationship, we talk about our security relationship. Importantly, you know, what we do in our engagement with the countries of the Pacific is talk about how we can improve human development throughout the Pacific. And that's really at the forefront of how we engage with the Pacific. But climate change is undoubtedly an important part of all of that. I mean, it really is. And what they see in this government is a government which takes climate change action seriously.

GLENDAY: I know you're travelling with the Prime Minister at the moment. He has had to leave his electorate office. Of course, he doesn't use that very often, given his role anyway. He's leaving it because of rolling protests. What do you make of this?

MARLES: Well, firstly, that electorate office is used every day by those who work in that electorate office and more importantly, the electors of Grayndler use it to get basic services. And I think what we've seen from those who have been protesting over the last couple of years is an absolute disgrace. I mean, the sorts of protests that we've seen there have not changed the life of one person in Gaza. But what it has done is prevented a whole lot of people in Grayndler being able to receive basic advice and basic services from the office of their local member. And I think, you know, it says something about the way in which they have engaged in their political discourse, which is not healthy. And I think, you know, those who have been doing that, and I think others more broadly in the political spectrum who engage in a kind of rhetoric which encourages that, I'm thinking particularly of the Greens political party, you know, they really need to have a look at the way in which they're engaging. Because, you know, it doesn't actually advance the argument, it doesn't help anyone in Gaza, but it does create a situation where people in Grayndler who are just going about their business are unable to get those services provided. So, I actually think what we're seeing here is something that's very sad. I know that the Prime Minister will ultimately find new premises and those services will be provided again, but I think these protests over the last few years have been a disgrace.

GLENDAY: Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles, we appreciate your time on the program this morning. Enjoy Papua New Guinea.

MARLES: Thanks, James.

ENDS