Television Interview, Sky News

SUBJECTS: Australia-US Relationship; AUKUS; Henderson Defence Precinct; Liberal Party. 

ANDREW CLENNELL, HOST: Joining me now is the Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles from Perth, where he's making that Henderson announcement. Richard Marles, thanks so much for joining us. There's a report in the Washington Post this morning that says Marco Rubio has given you a personal assurance that AUKUS is safe, that it is proceeding, and this occurred in Washington two weeks ago. Can you confirm that's correct?

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, I've had numerous conversations with American counterparts, really, since the inauguration of the Trump administration, where there's been really positive statements made about AUKUS. And you've asked me questions about this, as have many others, and I've said all along that I'm really confident about the proceeding of AUKUS under the Trump administration. We saw, for example, when I first met Secretary Hegseth back in February, really positive comments being made then by Secretary Hegseth in relation to AUKUS. So, we did speak about AUKUS in the meetings that I had in Washington a couple of weeks ago, and there was a positive sentiment there about how we're proceeding with AUKUS and needing to get this done. And the announcement that we're making today is obviously a step in that process. But there is an understanding, I think across the board, of the strategic significance of AUKUS, not just for Australia, but for the United States.

CLENNELL: So, the Washington Post report's essentially correct?

MARLES: I mean, I'm not going to go into the specifics of the meetings that I've had in America beyond what I've already said. But I make clear that, you know, we did talk about AUKUS in those meetings, the shared mission that we have in delivering AUKUS. We spoke about the review that is being undertaken by the US – a review that we welcome because it is an opportunity to look at how we can do AUKUS better, just as the review that was undertaken by the British government provided us that opportunity, as did our own when we came to power. So, we spoke about that. But I mean, it's not going to be a surprise to you that as the Defence Minister of this country, when speaking to counterparts in the United States, AUKUS is a topic and how we are proceeding with it is something that we always discuss. And the fact that we are proceeding with it in a manner where we are meeting all the timelines, we are resourcing what needs to be done is something that is really important and is very much a shared mission of both of our countries.

CLENNELL: Was it just Rubio then, or JD Vance and Pete Hegseth– and/or Pete Hegseth who gave you assurances around AUKUS?

MARLES: Well, again, I'm not walking down the path precisely that you've just said, but AUKUS was a topic in all the conversations that I had. It would surprise you if it wasn't, because it is a key part of the defence relationship that we have with the United States. And I've spoken about how we are proceeding, what we need to do, how we can do it better. But the fact that if you particularly look at that component of AUKUS which is Pillar One, Australia requiring a nuclear‑powered submarine capability and with that the establishment of the Submarine Rotational Force–West here in Perth at HMAS Stirling, and also what we need to be doing in terms of the Henderson Defence Precinct – these are all matters that we spoke about and that they are proceeding well.

CLENNELL: As things stand, is Anthony Albanese meeting Donald Trump next week?

MARLES: Oh, well, I'm not about to speculate on that, Andrew, and I've said often that I've got no doubt that in the not too distant future you'll see a meeting between the Prime Minister and the President. As you know, they spoke by phone recently and that comes on the back of a number of other conversations they've had by phone since Donald Trump was inaugurated. And I'm sure that at some point in the not too distant future you're going to see a meeting between the two leaders. But the important point here is that our relationship with the United States, our Alliance is strong. It is strong under this administration and under our government. What we need to be doing in terms of defence is moving forward at a pace and specifically AUKUS, as we've said, and we're also looking at all the other economic opportunities that exist in our relationship as well.

CLENNELL: Was that one of the things you were seeking during that trip, the bilat?

MARLES: Well, again, I'm not going to go into those meetings beyond what I've already said. I mean, when I was meeting with the Vice President, with the Secretary of Defense and with the Secretary of State, we spoke not just about defence matters, but we did speak about the relationship across the board; the economic opportunities that exist between our two countries, critical minerals, for example, as one of those; the levels of Australian investment that exist in the United States today. And there was a sense of the importance of the relationship between our two countries, that it is in fact a relationship that is going well, that is characterised by friendship, clearly, but is characterised by deep trust and deep strategic alignment. And these were the issues that I spoke to my counterparts about.

CLENNELL: Was there any reason that came from JD Vance or Marco Rubio about why there's been a delay in a face-to-face meeting between our Prime Minister and the President? Were they saying, oh look, you know, just bad luck with Iran having to leave the G7 or were they saying there was something Australia had done that they're not particularly thrilled about?

MARLES: I mean, that wasn't a part of the conversation. You know, it really wasn't, Andrew. But I mean, in a sense you've articulated it a little bit in the way in which you've asked that question. But since the inauguration of Donald Trump, we had an election, let's not forget that. That is a time when other countries leave you alone to go through your own democratic processes. That's an appropriate thing to do. That took up a number of months. There was a meeting that was scheduled between our two leaders and it was unavoidably cancelled along with a whole lot of other meetings that President Trump was going to have with other world leaders on that day. So, I mean, you know that time frame as well as anyone. Look, frankly, I don't– there is contact between our two leaders, significant contact. As I said, there was a phone call just a few days ago. I have no doubt that at some point in the not too distant future we will see a face-to-face meeting. But this relationship between Australia and America, it is our most important relationship. The Alliance remains the cornerstone of our worldview and our strategic policy and it is going well.

CLENNELL: You're now in regular contact with JD Vance, speaking of that, that's what I've been told. Have you reached out to him over the Charlie Kirk shooting?

MARLES: Well, look, I'm again not going to go into contacts that I've had with the Vice President, but let me say what I said on the day of this shooting: this is an absolute tragedy. There is no place for political violence being a part of the way in which political discourse happens. And our thoughts very much go out to the family of Charlie Kirk. I think we are all completely horrified by the tragedy that we have seen. Now it is a moment to reflect that political violence has not been part of our own political culture. That said, we're not sanguine about that. I don't think we can take any of that for granted. And it is really important that the way in which we engage in our own political discourse here in Australia is in a manner which promotes a political culture which does not go down a violent path. But you know, what we saw with Charlie Kirk was an absolute tragedy and we've expressed that very publicly.

CLENNELL: Is JD Vance asking, like Pete Hegseth, for more Australian defence spending?

MARLES: What I would say about the question of defence spending is simply this: you know, we talk about our shared mission, AUKUS is a really good example of that, not the only example, but clearly a very good example of that. I mean, in the context of talking about our shared mission, we talk about resourcing it, of course. But it's also clear that Australia has engaged in the biggest peacetime increase in our defence spending in our history. That is a point that I've made. It's a story that's understood in the United States. And the fact that the way in which we go about our business is to understand what is our strategic need, what sort of a Defence Force we need to build in order to meet that, and then we resource it. That's the process that we go through. That's the process that the Prime Minister has very much articulated. I think that's a process which is completely respected and it is a process which, as I say, has yielded the biggest peacetime increase in Australia's defence spending in our history. And that is something which is understood by the US.

CLENNELL: When do you understand the US review of AUKUS will be complete? Were you told?

MARLES: Look, I do know the answer to that question. I don't feel it's my place to answer it here in the sense that this is really an American review and it's a matter for them to, in a sense to publicise it in the way that they want to. But you should be assured that we do have a close dialogue with the US, we have a sense of when this review is going to–

CLENNELL: Well, you're really teasing us there, Richard Marles, aren't you? I mean, goodness me. You know when it is, but you're not going to tell us when it is. Is it by the end of the year?

MARLES: This is going to shock you as well, Andrew, there's quite a lot of things that I know that I don't tell you because it's not appropriate to be in the public domain. This is an American process and I'm going to leave it to the Americans to announce what they want to announce about it. But I think it is important for the Australian public to understand there is a close dialogue. They've actually been really good in terms of taking us through how this review is going to play out, where it sits at various moments in the process with various agencies. So, we have a really clear sense of that and clear visibility of that. And more to the point, how we can contribute to it and we will.

CLENNELL: This $12 billion here, I mean, this has got to be saying to the Americans, we're serious about this, we're doing this. This has got to be pushing them along in terms of the review and a Trump-Albanese meeting, doesn't it? It has to be an incentive. I mean, I'm not saying it's also not for Australia's good, but the timing of it, et cetera. It's something you're offering up, isn't it?

MARLES: Well, this is for Australia. I mean, let me be really clear – that's what this decision is. It's a really important decision. This is a significant piece of the overall financial contribution to building the Henderson Defence Precinct. It's not all of it. We've been clear about that. The very early estimates as to what this will ultimately cost is in the order of $25 billion. But this is therefore a very significant piece. And the significance of today's announcement is that it means that we can move full steam ahead on building the Henderson Defence Precinct immediately and we need to do that. I mean, the timing of today's announcement is really about ensuring that we have momentum in doing Henderson. The Premier of Western Australia and myself announced the Henderson Defence Precinct in October of last year. At that point we announced a three year process with funding of $127 million to scope and to plan for the precinct. We're only a year into that, but within the year we are actually now putting on the table a significant component of what will be required to build the whole precinct. And that says a lot about our commitment to it. It provides certainty to industry, which is important to provide right now. And we are looking at the first part of the building of ships or craft at Henderson from next year, as we will be building the Australian Army's Landing Crafts from next year at Henderson. And that's why we're making this announcement today. So, this announcement is very much about Australia's needs and about Australia's timing. I think the announcement– you know, Henderson is a key piece of the AUKUS story and from that point of view it will be welcomed in the US, as it will be welcomed in the United Kingdom for sure. But this is about what Australia needs to do in order to meet its strategic moment.

CLENNELL: Pete Hegseth has just been named the Secretary of War and his department is the Department of War. What do you make of that change of title and would you like it yourself, Richard Marles?

MARLES: Well, I'm really happy to be the Minister for Defence and there's no plans to change that and obviously this is an American decision and I'll leave that to them.

CLENNELL: It is extra spending you're announcing here, but it's not in the order of the rise in GDP of defence spending that the Americans want, is it? It's $12 billion over a decade. They want $40 billion extra a year. Do you think there's any prospect of us getting near that?

MARLES: Well, I mean, you've put figures out there, Andrew, which I don't necessarily accept. Look, I think the point to make is this: we've not focused on on the GDP number and partly that's because, you know, there are different ways of measuring that across the world. I mean, based on the NATO assessment of GDP expenditure, we’re actually at 2.8% right now. The number that matters here is the dollar amount that we are contributing to our Defence Force. And when you look relative to what we inherited when we came to office back in May of 2022, we now have an additional almost $70 billion over the decade, including this announcement today in additional defence spending and that represents the biggest peacetime increase in Australia’s defence spending in our nation’s history. 

CLENNELL: They want a lot more. So, are there further defence announcements in the wings for the US?

MARLES: Well, we go through a process for Australia of assessing our strategic circumstances, of understanding the Defence Force we need to build in order to meet those circumstances and then resourcing it. That's the clear point that the Prime Minister has made– 

CLENNELL: So, maybe? 

MARLES: Well, next year we have the biennial National Defence Strategy and accompanied with that the Integrated Investment Plan and obviously that leads into next year's Budget. That is now the tempo that we're in, the drumbeat that we're in, doing a biennial National Defence Strategy building on the one that we did in 2024. We'll work through what our needs are in as we go into that process and we will be resourcing for Australia. That's the challenge that we face and that's the challenge that we will meet.

CLENNELL: It was pointed out to me last week that Henderson and the Stirling base are basically on the same longitude as Beijing. Is that its strategic importance to the US?

MARLES: Well, I think the way to think about that, it's a good question and it is a really important point in this whole story. I think, you know, Perth right now is as significant a geostrategic place in Australia as there is because it is literally the fulcrum of the Indo‑Pacific. I mean we are much closer here in Perth to places like the South China Sea and the East China Sea to our north. We're also at the gateway of the Indian Ocean and the Indian Ocean itself is becoming a much more geostrategically contested area. But when we started talking not about the Pacific but the Indo‑Pacific, actually when you think about it in those terms, it really did put in a stark frame how significant Perth is, because it really is the fulcrum of that. Now we've understood that for a long time. That's why Fleet Base West is here. That's why we operate our submarines from here and have done so for a long time. But it is why the establishment of the Submarine Rotational Force–West, which is part of the the AUKUS pathway at HMAS Stirling just south of Perth, it is why that is so significant for the United States, for Australia, and in turn why building this industrial precinct which will enable the sustainment and maintenance of our future nuclear‑powered submarines right here in Western Australia is so important, and as is continuous naval shipbuilding here in Western Australia. But you are right, there is an enormous geostrategic significance about this place and that is a key part of why you are seeing these developments happening here and why this Henderson Defence Precinct is so important for our nation.

CLENNELL: Once US Virginia subs arrive in 2027, will there be any restrictions on them in terms of their potential combat use? Would they be able to operate from Stirling for combat?

MARLES: Again, I'm not going to speak about what will happen with submarines because we don't speak about what will happen with submarines. I think the important point I want to make there is that in all that we do, we Australia, but we working in combination with the United States within our region is about seeking to deter conflict and to build peace and stability for our region. And that's why we are investing in our defence forces. And that's why it is so important that we are working so closely with the United States. And not just the United States obviously, but countries like Japan and other friends and partners. It is actually about seeking to deter conflict and to provide for the peace and stability of our region.

CLENNELL: Sure, sure and I understand that. But America only have 48 of these submarines. Four are going to be permanently rotating out of here. They're going to be here a lot of the time, let's face it. How much does this basically tie us to joining any American conflict with say China? We're right in aren't we? We're all in? 

MARLES: Again, I'm not about to speculate on any future scenarios and someone in my position shouldn't, and so I'm not going to walk down that path. What we are doing in terms of the building of our capabilities is to deter conflict, and it is to provide for the peace and stability of our region. The earlier questions that you asked are important in that this is an incredibly geostrategically significant place. That is why we base our submarines here, and it is why the Submarine Rotational Force–West will be such an important addition to the way in which the United States operates.

CLENNELL: In your meetings in the US did you hear any disquiet around about the fact Australia is prepared to recognise Palestine?

MARLES: Look, I mean, it wasn't something that we spoke about. I mean, again, I’m reluctant to go into those meetings in more detail than what I’ve said, but it just wasn’t something we were speaking about. Those conversations were very much focused – 

CLENNELL: So you don’t see it, Richard Marles, as potentially getting in the way, for example, of a Trump-Albanese meeting, that decision?

MARLES: Again, I’m not going to speculate about a meeting but I don’t see it as something that is a huge issue, if it’s an issue at all in the context of our relationship with the United States. I mean, we are very focused on our shared strategic mission, on our shared defence mission. We’re very focused on the economic opportunities that come from the relationship between our two countries and that’s really where the conversation lies. 

CLENNELL: Alright, finally you’ve lost a shadow defence industry spokesperson in Jacinta Price last week. What did you make of that saga?

MARLES: I mean, look, this is really a matter for the Liberals and I’ll leave it to them. I think I’d say two things. One is that we’re making a very significant defence industry announcement today which is really important for our country, which involved a significant expenditure of public funds and the Liberals don’t have somebody in the chair. I think it says something about the seriousness of which, or the lack of seriousness of which they take defence and our nation’s security. And obviously in terms of the comments that Senator Nampijinpa Price made in relation to the Indian-Australian community, we have been very clear from the moment those comments were made that as far as the government is concerned we celebrate the Indian-Australian community. They have made an incredible contribution to our nation and we are much the better country for having the Indian-Australian community as a part of it. 

CLENNELL: Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles, thanks so much for your time. 

MARLES: Thanks Andrew. 

ENDS