Television Interview, Nine - Today Show

SUBJECTS: Pacific Island Forum; Ghost Shark

SARAH ABO, HOST: Welcome back. Well, Australia will spend $1.7 billion to acquire dozens of ghost shark drones. As doubts surround the AUKUS deal.

KARL STEFANOVIC, HOST: To discuss, Acting Prime Minister Richard Marles joins us here in the studio. Good morning to you. While the PM is away. Richard Marles will play. Look, I just on that the Pacific Islands forum warned yesterday we're already at war with China. Do you agree with that characterisation?

RICHARD MARLES, ACTING PRIME MINISTER: I probably wouldn't use that language but I think what we are seeing is more contest in the Pacific than we've seen before- geo-strategic contest. And certainly, you know, from our point of view we want to be the security partner of choice for the countries of the Pacific and we've been putting a lot of work in to see that happen- I think we are the natural security partner of choice. And we are seeing upgraded relationships right across the Pacific which we're negotiating.

ABO: It's a tough one though against the might of China.

MARLES: Well, I mean we live in a difficult world and we've said this from the moment that we've come to power; the strategic landscape that we face today is as challenging as any since the end of the Second World War.

STEFANOVIC: Shark Drones of the future, $1.7 billion. Is that in addition to the billion that we've already spent over the last seven years in developing this kind of tech?

MARLES:  Yes, $1.7 billion going forward. So, it's a five year contract which will see dozens of Ghost Sharks being built for the Royal Australian Navy and the first of these is going to be in service in January- so, in the next few months. And this comes after a lot of development of this capability. There have been three prototypes up until now but we're now at a point where we've, we've got a product that can be put into service and this is the most high tech long range autonomous underwater capability that exists in the world today.

ABO: It's an impressive looking thing and I guess it's going to please the White House as well. You were over in the US recently, you had a quote, ‘happenstance encounter’ with your Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, did you guys discuss anything about that or AUKUS?

MARLES: Well, obviously we spoke about AUKUS- w e didn't specifically talk about Ghost Shark in those meetings. But having said that, we've spoken a lot about innovation in our systems and there's been a lot of collaboration with the United States in relation to this kind of technology. This has been built by Anduril Australia, but it is a subsidiary of an American company. So, there's a lot of work that's been done with the US in relation to this.

STEFANOVIC: Okay, so it's enough to appease them, on tariffs?

MARLES: Well, a few things jumped around there, Karl, but like we've been making our position very clear-

STEFANOVIC: We need to spend more on tariffs in order to get low- sorry- on defence in order to get lower tariffs.

MARLES: Well, we've been making our position very clear in relation to tariffs and what we see as being Australia's national interest. Listen, in relation to defence, what we are doing is looking at our strategic landscape, the challenging nature of it, as I've described, working out what kind of defence force we need to meet that moment and then resourcing it. And that's actually already seen the biggest peacetime increase in our defence spending in Australia's history.

STEFANOVIC: Okay, the capability of these things by natural geography, it's a big island. How many of them are you going to need over the next 10-15 years?

MARLES:  Well, so this is the first tranche of them. We are coy about what the number is. So, what we're saying is dozens to not put out – 

STEFANOVIC: What’s the capability then?

MARLES: Well, the capability- this is the highest capability long range autonomous underwater vehicle in terms of what it can do. It does intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance, but it also does strike. So, this is a lethal capability, and that's intended to be the case. So, you can put differing payloads on it and can have differing roles. But there is certainly a lethal component.

STEFANOVIC: What I'm trying to ask is, I mean, it's obviously, it's a, it's a big coastline.

MARLES: How far will it go? 

STEFANOVIC: Yeah, again, we're not putting a number out there. It goes a long way. And if you really press me on that, I'd say it goes a really, really long way.

STEFANOVIC: It's a prototype though. Do we know that definitively if it's going to work?

MARLES:  No, this is not the prototype, we've had three prototypes. This is now a capability that is ready to go into service. So, we absolutely know it's, it's going to work. I mean, this is the product of years of development. And we are really confident that what we've got here is the most capable version of its kind in the world.

STEFANOVIC: We've got a long history of putting things in the water that don't work. Have you got every faith in this one?

MARLES: Well, I'm not really sure what you're referring to there, but yes, we, we have real faith in this. And as I say, I think this is the highest tech long range autonomous underwater capability that exists in the world today.

ABO: What is the time frame though, when we look ahead, how many we like to get and when are they likely to land, considering we've got so long to wait before the nuclear subs are even- well, if they're even coming from the U.S. 

MARLES: They're coming- 

ABO: Do you have certainty on that, by the way? Has a definitive decision been made on that?

MARLES:  Well, we were in a treaty with the United States and the United Kingdom about Australia acquiring this capability. And we're really confident that all the milestones that need to be met there are being met. And you know, I think that confidence is shared across the three countries. So, so very confident is the answer to that. In terms of this capability, we are seeing the first come into service in January, in the next few months- this is right now. So, this is the first tranche. We anticipate we will do more going forward, but this greatly enhances the capability of the Royal Australian Navy.

STEFANOVIC: Why do we need them? Why do we need the unmanned?

MARLES: Yeah, good question. So, I think we've seen the nature of war really change over the last few years. I mean, you look at just what's happened in Ukraine over the last few years and autonomous warfare drones, and we think about that in terms of drones in the sky, and that's certainly a part of it. But drones in every sense, on land, on sea, undersea is increasingly a part of the way in which warfare is now conducted. And when you look at the map, as to your point, really as an island continent surrounded by big oceans, if there was a country which needed a long range autonomous underwater capability, it's Australia.

STEFANOVIC: Super quickly. All this drama is between Russia and also Poland overnight. There is speculation that NATO may send troops into the region in a far greater way. Would we be part of that force?

MARLES: Well, I mean, we are making the contribution we are making in relation to Ukraine. We have capabilities which are in Poland right now. Our E-7 is doing its second rotation, which is the air command aircraft, which gives visibility and coordination from the sky. So, we are making a contribution to support Ukraine and to provide for that security.

STEFANOVIC: Okay, that's it at this point. Good on you. Thank you Richard.

ABO: Go the Pies.

MARLES:  Go Cats.

STEFANOVIC: Wow that got interesting.

MARLES: Yeah, that’s the next interview. 

STEFANOVIC: Forget about the unmanned subs! 

ENDS