Radio Interview, ABC RN Breakfast

SUBJECTS: Shooting in the US; Middle East Conflict; Ghost Shark; AUKUS; Coalition. 

SALLY SARA, HOST: Back home, the Federal Government will spend $1.7 billion on undersea drones for the Navy, which it says will complement the AUKUS fleet of nuclear‑powered submarines. It comes as the Prime Minister meets with Pacific island leaders this week amid a diplomatic tug of war with China in the region. Richard Marles is the Defence Minister and Acting Prime Minister and joins me now. Minister, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good morning, Sally. How are you?

SARA: Very well, thank you. Firstly, this breaking news out of the United States, a conservative commentator and Donald Trump ally, Charlie Kirk has been shot and killed while attending an event at a university in Utah. What is your reaction to this killing?

MARLES: Well, this is an absolute tragedy. There is no place for political violence. Obviously our thoughts are very much with Charlie Kirk's family, but, you know, in our societies we need to see peaceful discourse as being the way in which we deal with political issues. And political violence absolutely has no place at all.

SARA: Charlie Kirk was often provocative in his comments, but he did hold face-to-face conversations and debates, often with his political opponents. How important is it to be able to have those sorts of conversations in political life?

MARLES: Well, I think, you know, we are very lucky in Australia to have a culture where we do debate issues through and we do so, by and large, in a civil way where in fact there are very significant relationships and friendships across the aisle. And that's the way in which we should be engaging in political discourse. Political violence has no place and what we have seen play out in America in the last few hours is an absolute tragedy.

SARA: It's been a day now since an Israeli missile was fired into the territory of a key ally in the Middle East– that was firing into Qatari territory. There doesn't seem to be a substantive response from President Donald Trump. Does this give you any cause for concern about US willingness to defend its allies, but also hold Israel to account?

MARLES: Well, I won't speak for the US. From our point of view, we're very concerned about what we saw with this. This was a violation of Qatar's sovereignty and it did not contribute– in fact, we worry that it in fact makes things harder in terms of the ceasefire in Gaza, the return of the hostages, and clearly it gives rise to risk of escalation. I think the other point to make here though is that Qatar has been a country which has been working very hard on trying to broker peace within the Middle East. And so for all those reasons, we are very concerned about what has played out there.

SARA: How important are these relationships between the west and countries in the Middle East, including Australia, to be able to have military facilities in that part of the world?

MARLES: Well, I mean, very important. Qatar does house a number of military bases. From Australia's point of view, we operate significantly from the United Arab Emirates and I spend a lot of time engaging with the UAE and we have a really good relationship with the UAE, but we've had Defence Force personnel engaged in Qatar over the years as well. So, I mean, it's obviously a very strategic part of the world. We've got a history of operating from these countries and our relationships with them are very important.

SARA: Yesterday you announced that the government is spending $1.7 billion on long‑range lethal underwater drones or Ghost Sharks. What kind of capabilities do they offer the navy?

MARLES: Well, they represent the most capable long‑range underwater autonomous capability that exists in the world today, and we're very confident about that. This will be able have a number of payloads on the platform which can do intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, but which will also be able to do strikes. So, this is a lethal capability. It's been developed here in Australia, so it's the very best of Australian technology. And these platforms will be made here in Australia, in Alexandria in Sydney's inner west. So, we're really excited about the defence industry dimension of this. But fundamentally this is providing a really important, lethal, potent capability for the Royal Australian Navy. And this is happening now. The first of these units will be in service in January, in just a few months time. And we're very excited about what this does to increase the capability of the Navy.

SARA: Defence says that these platforms are designed for intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and strike operations. Isn't Australia spending $368 billion to acquire nuclear‑powered submarines to perform these same functions?

MARLES: Well, that's true, but you know, what we are seeing in terms of the changing nature of warfare is that it is really important to have a range of capabilities in order to perform what you're seeking to do. And autonomous capabilities are increasingly becoming a part of the future. And it doesn't mean that it's one or the other, there is going to be a need to have crewed large submarines, which is obviously what we're doing under the banner of AUKUS in terms of having a capable long‑range submarine capability. But you know, we're talking about a small number of submarines there. I mean, we operate six Collins class submarines now. We'll go to eventually a fleet of eight nuclear‑powered submarines in the future. What we're talking about here though with Ghost Shark is dozens of these platforms now, and in the future we expect that to be more, and that really does give us a much greater, more persistent capability which works in conjunction with the submarines that we operate.

SARA: Do you have an update from the Pentagon about when it will finish the review of AUKUS? Initially we were told it was going to be around a month. Any clearer idea now, Minister?

MARLES: Well, it's longer than a month and I'm very careful not to speak for the US, but we are working closely with them. So, the answer– we do have a clear sense of when this is coming and obviously we're engaging with the US review. As I've said repeatedly, we welcome this. It's an opportunity to look at how we can move forward with AUKUS, how we can improve and do it better. And it's very similar to the review that we undertook when we came to office and the review which the current British Labour government undertook when they came to office. And I think all of these are important steps to make sure that we are doing AUKUS in the best possible way.

SARA: You've said these devices will be, some of them, in the water by next year. You're not expecting the first AUKUS sub for another decade. Do these Ghost Sharks in part answer the question as to concerns about current vulnerabilities and a gap in our capabilities?

MARLES: Well, firstly, we expect the first sub in a time frame shorter than what you said. But it, it complements what our crewed submarine fleet does. And so it adds to it, and adds to it in the context of a very changed world. But we need crewed submarines and if you think about that as the specific capability really we are– when we came to government, we really did face the real prospect of a capability gap in terms of our submarine capability. But by having the first of the Virginia class submarines come under an Australian flag in the early 2030s, we really do close that gap and we do so also by extending the life of the Collins class submarines, which is happening as we speak. So, we're confident that when you look at the crewed capability, actual submarines, that we do have a growing, evolving submarine capability. But clearly those future submarines are fundamentally important to that. What we're doing with Ghost Shark really augments what we are able to do at sea, underwater and just provides a much greater capability, a much greater lethality to our Navy. But all of that is fundamentally important in terms of the strategic landscape that we face.

SARA: Briefly, on a separate issue, the opposition Leader Sussan Ley sacked Senator Nampijinpa Price from her front bench last night. Should that have happened before now, given the Senator's comments on Indian migrants to Australia?

MARLES: Well, I mean, firstly, the comments that Senator Nampijinpa Price made in relation to the Indian Australian community was obviously utterly unacceptable. And I really want to say from the perspective of the government, that we celebrate the Indian Australian community. They make a wonderful contribution to our nation and they are part of a multicultural, diverse country that we are. We gain a whole lot of strength from that diversity. Really what the Coalition does ultimately is matter for them, and I'm not going to comment on that. But what is clear from this government's point of view is we celebrate diversity and we celebrate the Indian Australian community.

SARA: The Opposition Leader called Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price an outstanding Australian yesterday while dumping her from the Shadow Ministry. Is Senator Nampijinpa Price an outstanding Australian in your view?

MARLES: Well, Senator Nampijinpa Price has obviously made a significant contribution to our country and you know, I acknowledge that. But ultimately these are matters in terms of who serves on the Coalition's front bench for the Coalition. And the comments that Senator Nampijinpa Price made in relation to Indian Australians was obviously unacceptable and very much at odds with how the government sees multicultural contemporary Australia. And that's what we would want to focus on. We celebrate having a diverse culture and having an Indian Australian community which is making an incredible contribution to modern Australia.

SARA: Minister, thank you again for your time.

MARLES: Thanks, Sally.

ENDS