Press Conference, Woomera

SUBJECTS: MQ-28 Ghost Bat, drone warfare, China’s live fire exercise.

CHIEF OF AIR FORCE AIR MARSHAL STEPHEN CHAPPELL: Well, Minister Conroy, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Woomera, an amazing Defence facility that is steeped in a lot of tradition and incredible achievements in the scientific and innovation domain, and particularly in the aviation and aerospace domains over many, many decades. And not least today a wonderful demonstration of new, innovative capability with the MQ-28 Ghost Bats, collaborative combat aircraft that you see behind us. An amazing demonstration of what we are describing in our National Defence Strategy as the integrated force. Our aviators, soldiers and sailors coming together with our public servant colleagues – in this case, Air Force combat, Capability, Acquisition and Sustainment Group, Defence Science and Technology Group and our industry partners – Boeing Defence Australia – to produce the first military aircraft that has Australia has designed, developed and produced in 50 years. And not only have we done that collectively as a team, we have developed and produced a world-leading – the world-leading collaborative combat aircraft currently.

Over 20,000 hours of digital twin testing, over 130 live sorties and over 150 hours flown by these magnificent machines behind us, all of them designed to work with our crewed platforms, our E-7 Wedgetails, our P-8 Poseidons and particularly with our F-35, our Super Hornet and our Growler combat aircraft to provide high-quality air power delivered with a high degree of lethality and a high degree of survivability for our crewed platforms.

So, welcome, and, Minister, I invite you to say a few words.

MINISTER FOR DEFENCE INDUSTRY PAT CONROY: Thank you, Chief. And it’s a great pleasure to be here at Woomera. And can I acknowledge Air Marshal Stephen Chappell, Chief of the Air Force, Amy List, Managing Director of Boeing Defence Australia. We’re also joined by Deputy Secretary Chris Deeble from the Capability, Acquisition and Sustainment Group and Chief Defence Scientist Tanya Munro.

This is the cutting edge of air power. This is the cutting edge of the Australian defence industry. Behind us right now is the first combat aircraft designed and made in Australia in 50 years. And we are truly leading the world with this capability. This platform is hitting every major milestone, and I’m pleased to announce today that it has successfully completed all of its scheduled test activities for 2025.

I announced at the start of last year a $400 million investment in the MQ-28 Ghost Bat, bringing the total Commonwealth investment to $1 billion, where I said that the next test for this aircraft would be the capability demonstration phase. That was successfully completed in July this year, four-and-a-half months ahead of schedule. Let me repeat that – four-and-a-half months ahead of schedule, demonstrating and passing all its tests. That includes an operator in an E-7 Wedgetail controlling two of these aircraft simultaneously, sending it on their missions.

So this is about supporting crewed platforms, as the chief said, like the Joint Strike Fighter, the Super Hornet and the Wedgetail and the P-8 Poseidon. This is about magnifying the fire power of the Royal Australian Air Force. This is about making Australia safer by giving the Australian Defence Force the best capabilities in the world to keep our troops safe as well as deterring potential conflict.

So this is a great day for the Royal Australian Air Force. It’s a great day for Boeing. And I also want to acknowledge that 200 Australian companies have been part of the supply chain. We’re leading the world in this capability. We’re years ahead of other countries in developing this. The first combat aircraft designed and made in Australia. And I want to pay tribute to all the workers, engineers, air force personnel, Defence scientists involved in this really important project.

I’ll invite Amy to say some words and then we’ll answer your questions.

AMY LIST: Thank you, Minister Conroy, Air Vice Marshal Chappell.  Ladies and gentlemen, today we’re here to announce the successful completion of a series of demonstrations of the MQ-28 Ghost Bat aircraft that proves its ability to operate in air combat operations. We’re incredibly proud to be building this aircraft in Australia, the first aircraft in 50 years to be built. And through that we’re growing the industrial capability through not only the hard work of the people from the Royal Australian Air Force, Boeing Defence Australia, the Defence Science Technology Group, but also our enormous team of Australian industry and suppliers that collectively have created a team that is building Australia’s sovereign capability.

This aircraft, the MQ-28 Ghost Bat, has successfully proven how it can team, how we can operate with an E-7 and how it can accelerate the force of the air combat force that we have today. We’re really proud to be announcing that we have completed these demonstrations, and that’s going to allow us to accelerate the development of this critical capability and bring it into the future force mix. Thank you.

MINISTER CONROY: Thanks, Amy. And I should just say one more thing before we open up for questions: the next milestone for this incredibly innovative aircraft is the test firing of a missile, because our intention is that this aircraft will be a collaborative combat aircraft able to detect, track and destroy enemy combatants. So the next test will be firing a missile as the next stage.

Happy to answer questions. Maybe do questions first on this announcement and then if anyone’s got any other questions.

JOURNALIST: Minister, when do you expect this to be in service? And if I could ask the Chief of Air Force: Chief, what did you make of the Loyal Wingman-style drones we saw at China’s parade yesterday? And if I could ask Boeing’s chief: if this aircraft is so advanced, why was it not put up in the US CCA program.

MINISTER CONROY: So Ben’s got three questions. Benefit of going first. On your question to me, Ben, we’re currently producing three Block II aircraft, Boeing is. That was part of the $400 million announcement I made last year. Government will then in the next little while, make decisions about what is the next stage of the aircraft. I’m not going to get ahead of government decision-making, but I will say that so far we’ve been absolutely satisfied it’s been hitting every milestone and we see a definite role for this in the future fix. But, again, I’m not going to get ahead of government decision-making on that.

AIR MARSHAL CHAPPELL: With respect to the MQ-28, again, this is a world-leading platform. I’ve had a number of conversations with international colleagues over the last few months and be able to talk through what we’ve achieved here as a team with the MQ-28 to include control of two of the MQ-28s with a single operator in the back of an E-7. We are very confident with the road forward and look forward to providing advice to government in due course.

With respect to what we’ve seen elsewhere in the world, I have not yet been offered briefings by those militaries or those nations on their capabilities. But, again, it an indication that a collaborative combat aircraft is part of the way of the future, and this is a way for us in Australia to build mass and capacity to add to the high level of capability we already have in this tier 1 air force of ours.

AMY LIST: We have been engaging with other – with the United States Air Force, the United States Navy through the development of this aircraft. We have partnerships with those forces to develop what a CCA capability is, and we’re actively looking for ways to enter the US market and present this aircraft for future implements to the US. Thank you.

JOURNALIST: Minister, you say confidently that this is world’s best. You would have seen the parade to which Ben was referring two days ago in China and the drones they displayed, and you know China’s expertise in making drones above just about anything else. How can you confidently say that this is world’s best when we don’t know the capability that China brings to the table?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, again, there’s an assumption there around the level of briefings that I’m privy to that’s probably not appropriate to talk about at a press conference. I’m confident that this is world’s best capability. And we talk regularly to our counterparts in countries where we work closely with, whether it’s the United Kingdom, the United States and other countries like that. So we’re confident that we’ve got amongst the best if not the best collaborative combat aircraft in the world. And we’re advancing its development at full speed. And as I said, today’s announcement is that we’ve successfully gone through the capability demonstration phase four and a half months ahead of schedule. This is more than a drone. A drone typically is piloted constantly by an operator. This is an autonomous aerial vehicle that is able to act as a loyal wingman in partnership with crewed vessels. So this is I’m confident in saying world-leading stuff.

Now, people may be accusing me of having Aussie pride, but I think we should be proud of what we’ve done here, and I’m very confident in stacking it up against what’s being produced around the rest of the world.

JOURNALIST: Minister, I appreciate you said before you didn’t want to get ahead of government decision-making, but when do you expect a decision will be made and whether there’ll be additional funding?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, again, we’ve put aside $10 billion in the integrated investment program for autonomous vessels and drones and counter drone technology. So that’s within the IIP. And in the next little while government will be thinking about the next stage of this project. It’s hitting all its major milestones. I see it as part of the future mix. But, again, I’m not going to foreshadow exact dates for when government considers things because that’s not appropriate.

JOURNALIST: But I’ll just push you on the date. There is 2027 looming around the corner and, of course, there’s a big red circle around that year when it comes to Xi Jinping. Would you expect to have it in service for 2027?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, again, we are currently building the three Block II aircraft. They are much more capable than the Block I aircraft. And they will be assets for the Royal Australian Air Force to use. Our next stage is do we go from those Block II aircraft into a longer production run. So those Block III – Block II aircraft are being conducted right now. I’m not sure whether the Chief of the Air Force might want to add to that.

AIR MARSHAL CHAPPELL: Thanks, Minister. We’re definitely working with a team, including Boeing Defence Australia, in considering what a Block III might be. And as we, again, look as a Defence Force as an integrated force on the force mix, the force structure and the force postures, where does an MQ-28 sit. And, again, that’s advice that we’ll take to government in due course. But I’m confident that this is the sort of platform and capability mix for the air domain that’s exactly what we need to be highly lethal and highly survivable in the years ahead.

JOURNALIST: Putting on your glasses, looking into the future, what does an air force look like? Do we have, say, 10 autonomous drones to every manned aircraft? How do you imagine it would work?

AIR MARSHAL CHAPPELL: Well, I’m not going to imagine and speculate, Andrew, today. However, what I am very confident of is that uncrewed platforms like the MQ‑28 behind us, this is what Australia – gives Australia mass. It gives us capacity to add to the high-quality of capability that we have. When we talk capability, we often just think in terms of technical platforms, widgets, systems, weapons. But a real key part of the Australian military capability is the human capability. We have three services, all of them over a century old. We’ve invested for over a century in our human capability. We give the highest quality training in the world. We always punch above our weight. And then we work as a team to design as a first go in 50 years a world-leading platform. So it’s a mix of crewed, uncrewed. It’s the human capability mixed with the technical capabilities, and then it’s the tactics, techniques, procedures and the operation art that we bring into play, aligned with our allies and partners, that contributes to deterrence.

JOURNALIST: Minister, can we export the Ghost Bat to no-one and still declare it a success?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, we're very much focused on exporting this capability to allies and like-minded countries. I announced with the Deputy Prime Minister at the Avalon Airshow the establishment of the Australian Defence Strategic Sales Office, which is all about harnessing the power of both government and industry to sell Australia’s leading platforms around the world. And one of the five platforms that we launched the initial campaign on is the MQ-28 Ghost Bat, building on our success of other exports that we’ve won recently, whether it’s selling over 100 Boxer combat reconnaissance vehicles to Germany or the Over the Horizon Radar Network to Canada. We’ve announced two very significant and the two largest defence export deals in the history of the country in the last year and a half thanks to the work of the Albanese Labor government in partnership with industry. We’re fighting very hard to win export opportunities in conjunction with Boeing. We’ve got a lot of countries interested in it.

JOURNALIST: I understand you want to export it, but what I’m asking is if you don’t – if you don’t – if you’re beaten by foreign competition, how does the Ghost Bat survive as an Australian-only technology?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, that’s a hypothetical there, Tim. What I’m focused on selling it around the world as well as government considering the next stage for us. I’m confident that so far countries around the world have been very impressed with it, and I think we’ll get there. Like, we should be proud of what we’re producing, and we shouldn’t always be so pessimistic that we won’t have success there.

JOURNALIST: Just on that, how many international buyers, you know, are serious about it, would you say? And have any offered to put any money into it?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, I’m not going to go into –

JOURNALIST: Developmental funding?

MINISTER CONROY: Yeah. Well, I’m not going to go into confidential interactions with other governments. I’ll make a couple of points. We’ve joined an MOU with the United States around a common collaborative combat aircraft architecture. That may offer opportunities. Again, we’re not exactly asking other partners to put in money for development funding, because this is a sovereign Australian capability. We want to export this to other countries but retain sovereignty and IP control here. So we’re continuing to engage with a number of countries. When we’re ready to make an announcement, Ben, rest assured you’ll be the first to know.

JOURNALIST: I’ll take that, thank you.

JOURNALIST: Second.

MINISTER CONROY: Second. Equal. But you’ll be amongst the first to know. But we’ll just get there and we’ll just do this in a calm, methodical way rather than speculating about who might be interested.

JOURNALIST: But you’re confident that it’s better than those Chinese drones we saw yesterday?

MINISTER CONROY: I’m confident that this is world-leading capability.

JOURNALIST: Minister, can you talk a little bit about the state of the global world and the types of conflicts you might anticipate that makes you think that the sovereign capability of things being developed and manufactured in Australia is important?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, I think everyone has learning the lessons from conflicts around the world. If you look at Putin’s illegal and immoral invasion of Ukraine, one of the lessons there is obviously about autonomous warfare and drones. But the other thing is about sovereignty and self-reliance and the need to make sure that you’re not hostage to very extended supply chains for everything.

We live in an interdependent world, so some things will always be imported. But where we can develop sovereign capabilities, we’re committed to doing that, whether it’s Ghost Bat that’s standing behind me with our $1 billion investment in that or our investment in Ghost Shark where we moved from an initial investment in 2022 to three prototypes being delivered a year early with an intention to move into next‑stage production. We’re investing in these sovereign capabilities because it’s the right thing for the defence of the nation. We’re doing it because it’s the right thing for Aussie workers, and it’s a very happy day when those two things are in alignment.

JOURNALIST: Are you putting all your eggs in one basket here? I mean, the Australian military has very, very few armed drones compared to what we’re seeing overseas. When are those billions of dollars that are in the forward investment plan going to be invested in uncrewed –

MINISTER CONROY: Well, Ben, I reject the premise of your question. We’ve allocated $10 billion to this area and money is flowing right now. I announced last year the single biggest investment in the Australian drone industry when I was down at SYPAQ where we were partnering with SYPAQ and a Brisbane company to invest drones.

JOURNALIST: How much was that –

MINISTER CONROY: That was in the tens of millions as an initial investment as part of a much bigger program. Two weeks ago, I announced a $1.3 billion plan for counter drone technology. So think about where we were only three and a half years ago before the change of government – we had no armed drones. In fact, the last government had cancelled the only armed drone project. We now have armed drones in service full stop. Secondly, we had no counter drone defences. We’ve now entered into contract for counter drone defences. Thirdly, we had no autonomous underwater vessels. We’ve now entered into contract for the prototypes for the Ghost Shark and they’ve been delivered a year ahead of schedule. We’ve got Blue Bottle autonomous vessels working with the ADF right now. And we’ve invested a billion dollars in Ghost Bat that’s been delivered to the next phase four and a half months ahead of schedule. By any balanced view of this, we’re moving at extreme speed across a whole spectrum, so not just big things but little things that are disposable as well, and we’ve got the ASCA missions as well. So we’re moving at high speed, supporting Aussie industry and bringing capability rapidly into service for the ADF.

We might go to Andrew.

SPEAKER: [Indistinct].

MINISTER CONROY: I will do this and then that one.

JOURNALIST: From an American perspective, Australia committed to this configuration in 2017. And since then, like, the US Air Force has gone through several iterations of what they want and what they think this is going to be in the future, and they still have a couple more coming. But, you know, is that the right strategy? How do you know for sure that this configuration, this size, this speed, this flight envelope is what is going to be competitive in the market, especially overseas, going forward?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, this might be a question colleagues will be interesting in adding to, but I make a point: we’re investing across a whole spectrum. This isn’t the only autonomous platform we’re investing in. Secondly, this platform is incredibly versatile in terms of its payload. We’ve been very clear with people – we’re investing in something that is capable and has modularity at its central feature, which means the payloads across both intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance and strike give us a lot of flexibility that we’re really excited about. I’m not sure whether anyone would like to add.

AIR MARSHAL CHAPPELL: So we’ve had a project agreement with the US now for two years. We work incredibly closely across a whole range of matters with the US forces, in particular, US Air Force and the US Navy in the air domain. We’re working and have had a number of meetings around combat collaborative aircraft over the last couple of years. We have also worked very closely with Boeing Defence Australia, as they do with their Boeing in the US. We’re confident that the architecture of this aircraft and the software and the firmware inside it means that it is completely interchangeable with what will be coming across a number of other platforms with the US and other partners. So this thing is not only integratable; it is interchangeable with all of the platforms we fly as well as those we fly – which are flown with our close allies and partners. So the TTPs are going to match. The flight performance is complementary to the flight performance of the packages of other combat aircraft and supporting aircraft in the mix in any particular crises or conflicts. So we’re very comfortable this thing will plug and play beautifully with ourselves, allies and partners. But Amy may wish to add more from an industry point of view.

AMY LIST: The MQ-28 has been designed from the outset to provide affordable combat mass. And that also means that it’s modular, it’s adaptable. The way the software has been designed and the mission systems have been integrated means that it is able to evolve with emerging threats. So I am really confident as I worked through the design with the team and look at the requirements that it will be able to adapt and meet those future threats. Thank you.

SPEAKER: Last question.

JOURNALIST: Minister, I’m actually really keen to ask about the live firing exercise, and I wouldn’t mind getting Stephen Chappell’s view on it, is that okay? Minister, as you’ve seen, some of the radio broadcasts have been published on Nine that show that when the Chinese fired missiles in the Tasman Sea they warned it was going to go 50,000 feet. That’s well above where passenger jets were flying and also that it was in the direct path of the Emirates flight. With this extra information, how alarmed are you? And I’d love some thoughts also from Stephen Chappell?

MINISTER CONROY: Well, we’ve made it very clear that the notice given for that live firing exercise was not professional, was not up to the standards of the Australian Defence Force that typically gives 12 to 24 hours notice compared to the notice that was given for this exercise. So I want to – I’ve heard the recordings and I want to pay my compliments to the pilots and the ground crews, the air traffic controllers that managed that situation. They were incredibly professional. They handled it with, I think, a sort of Australian attitude that I think is to their credit. But they shouldn’t have been in that situation. China’s navy should have given more notice than they did, and that’s the point that we’ve made at every level of government. The Prime Minister made it to his counterparts when he was – when he had the opportunity. Foreign Minister Wong made that point to her counterpart as well. The level of notice was unprofessional, but I do want to pay tribute to the pilots and the air traffic crews that managed the situation.

AIR MARSHAL CHAPPELL:Minister, all I’d add is that the DPM and Foreign Minister have characterised this previously and have characterised it accurately. Likewise the Chief of Defence Force has also discussed the matter in some detail. I would also pay tribute to the air crew involved and the air traffic controllers. They remained very calm, very professional and dealing with it professionally and passing the information out to others who may be affected. What was said over the radio and declared for the live fire and what was actually done may be two different things, but the bottom line is a minimum of 12 to 24 hours, usually we’ll provide at least 48 hours through notice to airmen and mariners and declare it through an international system so that every airspace and sea space user knows something might be about to occur in the coming days and will take the appropriate actions to avoid that area.

JOURNALIST: With your experience, were you alarmed by what you saw and heard?

AIR MARSHAL CHAPPELL: I was not alarmed; I was disappointed. We expect all militaries to behave in a safe and professional manner. There are adjectives to describe that, but we expect safe and professional behaviour around the globe from all militaries.

JOURNALIST: You said what was said and done –

SPEAKER: [Indistinct] because we’re running out of time.

MINISTER CONROY: Thanks very much, everyone.