Radio interview, 3AW Drive

SUBJECTS: Australia’s future general purpose frigates; Middle East conflict; Geelong; Defence spending; Victorian government's new work-from-home plan

JACQUI FELGATE, HOST: On the line now is the Defence Minister and Deputy PM, Richard Marles – good afternoon to you.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon, Jackie. I mean, before we talk about that, I don’t know what’s going on with Tony Tardio or, in fact, what’s going on with 3AW and comments about Geelong… I mean, is there no state pride?

FELGATE: I know! I said that to them all this morning. I think they’re just jealous, you know?

MARLES: I mean, I would understand that attitude if we were talking about Collingwood, but you certainly can’t apply it to Geelong.

FELGATE: No, that’s right, that’s right. We’re golden, aren’t we? Give them some more money down at the stadium, Richard. No, I’m kidding. All right, well, speaking of money – $10 billion on these frigates. Why do we need them?

MARLES: Well, when we came to government, we actually inherited the oldest surface combatant fleet the Royal Australian Navy’s been operating since the end of the Second World War. And there was no prospect of a new surface combatant coming into service until 2034, which is the first of the Hunter-class frigates that are currently being built in Adelaide. So, that represented the capability gap. The Defence Strategic Review identified that and indicated that we really needed a general-purpose frigate — and we needed it quickly. That’s what we’re doing with this class of vessel. So, we announced that we would do this at the beginning of last year. We’ve been going through a process of selecting. One of the things that the Defence Strategic Review said was that to get this into service quickly, we need to be picking a ship, which is currently in use around the world. It recommended we look at four — we ended up looking at five. We’ve now got down to the point of selecting this one, and in fact, this decision is actually months ahead of schedule. It will see the first of these delivered in 2029 – which is a very fast timeframe – and be in service in 2030. But this is the biggest capability acquisition decision that we’ve made, really, since we announced our future submarine pathway back in March in 2023.

FELGATE: And a $10 billion cost estimate just for the first stage — are you confident that that will remain on budget?

MARLES: We are. So, to give you that figure, we budget in Defence terms over a ten-year period. Obviously, there are costs that we think about beyond that, but the way in which Defence budgeting occurs is over a ten-year period. The allocation that we have over that period of time for this capability is $10 billion, and we are confident that we will meet that. I mean, the precise cost, of course, is now going to be subject to the negotiations that we have with Mitsubishi Heavy Industries to sign the contract. But clearly, they’ve tendered at a price – which I can’t go into on air – but we are very confident that we will be able to do this within that budget allocation.

FELGATE: The US has been putting significant pressure on Australia to increase our Defence spending. Is this on top of what’s already allocated or within? And has the US reached out in light of this decision?

MARLES: The $10 billion that I’ve described is within the current decisions that we’ve been making. It actually was part of an announcement that we did at the beginning of last year, which saw a significant increase in our Defence spend. We talk a lot about that — what we are experiencing right now, $57 billion additional in Defence spending over the course of the next decade, represents the biggest peacetime increase in Australia’s Defence spending in our history – and that actually is something that the US recognises. We’ve not been talking to the US specifically – or they haven’t reached out – in relation to the decision that we’ve announced today, but we are talking with the US literally constantly about what we’re doing with our Defence capability. So, they’re fully aware of all this.

FELGATE: Has your boss, the PM, had a discussion yet with Donald Trump?

MARLES: Well, I mean, they’ve had a number of conversations over the phone, as you’re aware, since the President was inaugurated. And I’ve got no doubt that there’ll be a face-to-face meeting at some point in the near future.

FELGATE: Hopefully, sooner rather than later. Now, Western Australia has done well here. Your own media release says that in the West it will support, I think, around 10,000 high-skilled jobs. Will the east coast of Australia — in particular Victoria — get anything out of this?

MARLES: I mean, more broadly, in order to deliver the capabilities that we are seeking to deliver into our Defence Force, we are going to need to activate the industrial base of the whole country — and that very much fits within Victoria. So, in the longer term, when we actually start seeing these frigates being built in Western Australia, it will draw on a supply chain from around the country – and that will very much include Victoria. But that statement holds true in relation to the building of the Hunter-class frigates in Adelaide, and of course, the building of our future submarines in Adelaide. And actually, Defence industry is a really significant growth area within the Victorian economy. We will see that in relation to these significant naval assets, but we’re also seeing it in relation to land assets. The next generation of infantry fighting vehicles are being built by Hanwha – a Korean company – at Avalon, north of Geelong. That’s a significant facility. It’s Hanwha’s biggest facility outside of the Korean Peninsula. And really, from a Geelong point of view, the biggest kind of re-entry into high-tech manufacturing that we’ve seen since Ford stopped making cars in Geelong. So, we are seeing Defence industry becoming a bigger part of the Victorian economy.

FELGATE: And just on another couple of topics, if you don’t mind – and in particular Victoria – your state counterparts, the Premier, legislating or wanting to legislate working from home within the public and the private sector for two days a week. Do you support that?

MARLES: Well, obviously this is a decision of the State Government, so it is a matter for them. But I think the way I’d answer that question is that this was an issue that played out pretty significantly during the federal election. I think with Senator Hume – you and her and I spoke a fair bit about it. Working from home, in this day and age, I think has a role to play in terms of being more productive.

FELGATE: What about the fact that you’re legislating for the private sector? That’s what’s changed, I think, from the discussions that you and I have had in the past.

MARLES: Well, sure, and obviously that’s ultimately a matter for the State Government. But we acknowledge that working from home definitely has a place in terms of the modern workplace. People are seeking to avail themselves of that option, and it does contribute to the overall productivity of the workplace. It means that people are travelling less, and they’re able, in that sense, to be working more. We certainly, in the policies that we brought to bear at the last federal election, saw working from home as being a critical component of how work is now done.

FELGATE: We saw over the weekend significant pro-Palestinian protests, not just in Melbourne, but obviously the huge protests with hundreds of thousands of people in Sydney. A number of your colleagues took part in that. Did you consider marching?

MARLES: Well, obviously I wasn’t in Sydney, but no is the answer to that question. That said, I think I’d make these observations: it was a very powerful statement, what we saw in Sydney. The protests were peaceful, and that’s an important point to make. I think everyone is grateful to the protesters, but obviously the organisers as well, in relation to that. Australians, I think, can see the appalling situation that is playing out in the Middle East – the humanitarian disaster which is playing out in Gaza. People want to see an end to the hostilities, to see humanitarian assistance flow. And obviously, in the same breath, it’s really important to state that we want to see a return of the hostages to their families in Israel. All of that is what needs to be seen in the Middle East, and I think the protests that you saw over the weekend were a reflection of that.

FELGATE: The Prime Minister said yesterday that he would use any phone call with Benjamin Netanyahu to advocate for a two-state solution. Are you aware if any phone call has yet taken place?

MARLES: I am not. I mean, it’s being reported in the media today about the Prime Minister’s phone call with Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority. But you know, the two-state solution has been a bipartisan position, actually, in Australian politics for decades. Inherent in that is the idea that there is a legitimate aspiration of the Palestinian people to have statehood. And if you support a two-state solution, that is ultimately what you are saying. I think what we’re also acknowledging is that, given all that is playing out in the Middle East and the tragedy embodied in that, the only lasting peace is going to be achieved if there is a two-state solution. That’s clear now. We’ve articulated a range of factors in terms of Australia’s pathway to recognition in respect of this – no role for Hamas in a future Palestinian government. Obviously, the question of hostages is fundamentally important in terms of seeing hostages returned to Israel. That’s been articulated. But ultimately, an enduring peace in the Middle East is only going to be achieved by having a two-state solution. And that’s actually been the position of both parties for a very long period of time.

FELGATE: And we have increased our aid to the region. Are you confident that that aid is getting where it needs to go?

MARLES: We are. And we’re confident that that aid is making a difference. As you say, we announced on Monday an additional $20 million of assistance to those in Gaza, which brings the total to $130 million that we’ve been contributing to humanitarian assistance for the region. That is an important contribution we’re making, given what people are facing there. But we are seeing a human tragedy unfold in Gaza – and that the world acts in relation to that – it is important that we see a return of the hostages, but it is also important that we see a cessation to hostilities.

FELGATE: Richard Marles, always appreciate your time on a very busy day.

MARLES: Thanks, Jackie.