Radio interview, ABC Perth

SUBJECTS: Recruitment in the Australian Defence Force, Palestine

GARY ASHEAD, HOST: And the Minister for Defence Personnel joins me. Matt Keogh, thanks for coming in.

MATT KEOGH, MINISTER FOR DEFENCE PERSONNEL: Good to be with you, Gary.

ASHEAD: I could have swore you were in Canberra this morning.

MINISTER KEOGH: I was in Canberra this morning...

ASHEAD:  I had to stop and check because I was going they said he's available, fine and he'll come in the studio. And then I thought no, they must mean the Canberra one. You guys are amazing.

MINISTER KEOGH: Ta da! 

ASHEAD:  Bang. 

MINISTER KEOGH: Couldn't miss you here.

ASHEAD:  No, no, fair enough.

MINISTER KEOGH: First time with you in the studio here, I wouldn't miss it.

ASHEAD:  Okay, excellent. All right, well, welcome. Now clearly recruitment's been a priority.

MINISTER KEOGH: It absolutely has.

ASHEAD: For what reasons? You explain the reasons why we've got to get our numbers up.

MINISTER KEOGH: So, when we came into Government we did the Defence Strategic Review and that looked at a whole range of different capabilities and issues that we confronted in terms of, you know, where do we sit in our region and what's going on in our region. And it was very clear about us confronting the most complex set of geostrategic circumstances since the Second World War. Now that was something the previous government had acknowledged when they were in power as well. But they had not managed to grow the Defence Force to deal with what we needed to do in terms of making sure that we've got new and different and greater capability as a Defence Force. 

Now when I say capability there we're talking about ships and planes and of course bringing on board the new nuclear propelled submarines over time, new frigates etc. But as well as a different range of army capability looking at HIMARS and long-distance weapons and things of that nature. But what it has meant is that in order to do that you've got to grow the number of people you've got into the Defence Force. And fundamentally they are our most important capability because they're the ones who operate it all. And it's what, you know, through all the training and everything else, it's what they have in their brain. It's not just their brawn about how they operate that gives us a strategic edge. 

But the ADF was going backwards, we were getting smaller, not bigger. And so we've set about over the last few years of Government making sure that we turned that around. And so we had a number of initiatives in recruitment and in retention so that we could grow the Defence Force. And what we've seen the closeout of the financial year just closed that we've grown the Defence force by over 7,000 people joining, enlisting. That's really a great outcome. But also the separation rates have fallen so that they were up over 11%, they're now under 8%. The long term historic average had been around 9%. So, having that separation rate fall means that we're keeping more people in, we're keeping them in longer and we're growing by recruiting more people into the Defence Force as well. The biggest number to join in 15 years.

ASHEAD: You've had to obviously tackle social media in terms of recruitment as part of the strategy.

ASHEAD: How important is it to get our reserves forces up as well?

MINISTER KEOGH: Growing our Defence Force reserves is really important and we, as part of our Workforce Plan that we released last year is looking at how do we grow that reserve but also look growing how we use the reserve force, as it augments if you like the permanent full time force in a whole range of roles because it provides that amazing job flexibility for people wanting to continue to engage in their Defence service or join nearly to Defence as a reservist. But you know we're trying to get people to join as reserves and we've seen that grow which is excellent but we're also looking to get people to join the full time Navy, Army and Air Force and that's growing as well, which is a really great outcome.

ASHEAD: You talked, I know about, you know, even enlisting people from some of our allies or our Five Eyes partners etc New Zealand. How's that going? Because I know that there was one figure given out about three, but where are we at? What's the matter – why don’t the Kiwis want to come and help us?

MINISTER KEOGH: Three have enlisted but most importantly we've got 70 that are about to enlist that are just waiting for their courses to start and they'll enlist when they go into those courses. And we've got over 500 in the pipeline going through the application process right now. So, that's from New Zealand, which we started accepting applications from the middle of last year, but also from Canada and the US and the UK and we started taking applications from them at the beginning of this year. We've seen an incredible response of interest, but also those applications and, as people expect and understand, they're permanent residents, they've still got to go through all the vetting and the clearance processes as well on that journey to enlistment. And you know, we're getting that right. And so we've had three join and we've got another 70 about to, and there's 500, over 500, in that pipeline.

ASHEAD: And let's look, hope that they all look like front rowers, big units, um now.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, actually, Gary, I want them to have a whole breadth. We've got over 300 roles in the Defence Force and you know, having those frontline infantry, the front rowers, maybe we'll get them on the Wallabies as well, but it's important that we've got people, you know, diesel mechanics, cyber operators, people who are interested in doing nuclear technology around our nuclear propelled submarines. We're about to start doing direct recruitment into space operations as well. So, that the breadth of roles, there's over 300 is really important. Of course, what we've done in trying to get more people in is expanded those eligibility requirements. We don't need to make sure that everyone's a frontline, infantry sort of person to join the Defence Force. So, we had conditions like endometriosis knocked you out completely from joining the Defence.

ASHEAD: Okay, have you changed that?

MINISTER KEOGH: We have. It's the 21st century. We need to have modern medical tests, requirements for the different roles, not just one set of criteria that applies across the board and meant that we're knocking people out of the process when we could keep them in doing a whole range of different roles.

ASHEAD: Yeah, I know peanut allergy was something that. I don't know whether you've dealt with that or not.

MINISTER KEOGH: Endometriosis, if you'd had a broken bone, if you had severe acne growing up, you know, these are, it's the 21st century, we can move on now. And those things hadn't been reviewed and we got about reviewing those so we could get more people through. We've had a 28% increase in applications.

ASHEAD: So, would you have liked to see more though? I mean, because I think it was 75,000 applications. That's right. Were you surprised that you could only out of that extract 7,000 or not?

MINISTER KEOGH: Look, we want to get more through, obviously, and part of that is making the process of recruitment shorter and we've moved it down from over a year to averaging about 266. But for the key priority roles, it's now about 150 days to come through. So, we've moved a long way, but we want to make it even quicker and by changing those eligibility conditions so that they fit the role, as opposed to being one generic rule across the board, we are getting more through and we'll continue to see that expand. But we do set, you know, criteria that are important. It's our Defence Force and so you lose some people because of the length of time and we're trying to get that even shorter. You lose some people because they just don't fit the criteria. And we do, we are setting important standards for our Defence force as well.

ASHEAD: The Gap Year, I know, was something that. Well, and look, I can speak from, you know, experience. My son went through Defence Force Gap Year and into the Air Force and moved on from there. He still wears a uniform, but it's a police one these days.

MINISTER KEOGH: One blue for another blue. 

ASHEAD: Oh, yeah, 

MINISTER KEOGH: Still serving his country and state.

ASHEAD: Yeah, yeah. And an extraordinary program. And I'll never forget the day that he came home and said Defence had been at the high school and had a chat and he's going to go to another session in the City somewhere at the, the Defence office in St George's Terrace, Adelaide Terrace. Not sure.

MINISTER KEOGH: It's moved down around the corner now. It's down Mill Street.

ASHEAD: Right. But he, you know, the, you know, of course his mum and I went really? And then he sort of worked through it and made up his mind and that was it. And, you know, it was a funny old day when we went down to wave him goodbye in his car. As he got in the car as they were driving him to the airport, we wouldn't see him again because he was off to basic training. But by golly, I mean, from a parent's point of view and how that set him up as a just turned 25 year old and because, you know, the spending in terms of, you know, he's on base, he's getting his three square meals, he's getting all his education and so on. So, from a savings point of view and being able to get himself ahead in terms of the housing market and things like that, it's just phenomenal.

MINISTER KEOGH: The Gap Year is an incredible opportunity and you know, it gives people a sort of a cross sectional experience in Defence. They can see lots of different roles and things that are going on and we see a very high, if you like, success rate in terms of people who do the Gap Year and then decide to continue on in service in the Defence Force. But even for those who don't, it's an incredibly valuable opportunity and as you say, their meals and everything else are being met and they can save a bit of money while they're doing it, but they also grow a network of people in and out of the Defence Force by doing it. But we do find the vast majority, a very high percentage, end up staying on in the Defence Force. But you know, your experience is a really useful one there, Gary, because when we advertise we're not just advertising to those sort of, you know, 16, 18 year olds through to 24 year olds, we're also, and we do advertise for a high group as well, up to 34 is sort of that target band. 

But we also need to get in front of the parents and the teachers got to convince us, people that are being asked about, I'm thinking about this career, I'm thinking about doing that thing. We don't want, you know, parents and teachers to give a negative experience. We want them to understand that, hey, there's over 300 roles in the Defence Force and you're involved in it maybe conflict, but it may be peacekeeping, it may be helping with humanitarian relief when one of our near neighbours has had a cyclone go through or a tsunami. And so all of that sort of different opportunity from role type to what you may do in exercises and operations, you know, inspires people. And the thing that is a thread through everyone who joins the Defence Force who wants to join the Defence Force is they've got a commitment to a higher calling, something greater than themselves, that they want to serve their nation, they want to give back to their nation. And that's a crucial piece to the puzzle and we make that clear in our advertising and engagement as well.

ASHEAD: Actually, I've got another one.

ASHEAD: What does she mean by that?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, obviously we don't do that at home, Gary, but it's important. You've got to train for that, you've got to be able to do it.

ASHEAD: Quickly, all the training around it.

MINISTER KEOGH: Yes, well. And yeah, I tell you something interesting about the training. We have this exercise up in the north of Australia around Darwin, Exercise Pitch Black every two years. It involves multiple different countries participating. I think we had, and I was talking to an American squadron leader and they had done an exercise that involved them coming into Curtin Air Base in the north of WA, doing a refuel and keep going. He said it's the fastest refuelling they'd ever had, you know, which demonstrates the capability that we build here in supporting our own forces, but also being able to work with our partners as well.

ASHEAD: Alright, I'm speaking to the Defence Personnel Minister, Matt Keogh. What is your target, then? I know that you. You're sort of looking now at around 69,000 by 2030. Is that enough?

MINISTER KEOGH: The early 2030s, we're aiming to have that 69,000. And what we've done with the workforce plan that we released in November last year is calibrate that to what we call the Integrated Investment Plan. So, when we had the Defence Strategic Review at the beginning of our first term in Government, and we released at the beginning of 2024 or early 2024, the National Defence Strategy and the Integrated Investment Plan. So, that was about, well, what's the kit we actually need in the modern world when we're facing this? You know, when we're operating in our region, we're not fighting a war in Iraq, we're not fighting a war in Afghanistan. What do we need in our region to do what we need to be able to do? And so that recalibrated things like the frigates being purchased, things like landing craft for army, things like HIMARS, weaponry, you know, some areas across the Air Force space, for example, and then we calibrate that back to what are the people requirements that we need? And it's not just a, you know, 69,000. There's for each stream and for each area we need X number of this and Y number of these people to do that. And that gives you that 69,000 by the early 2030s. And what's really pleasing is that by the end of, you know, the 30th of June, we're about 300 ahead of where we needed to be at that point. So, that's a good, a good position to be in. But we need to continue to grow going forward, of course, and we'll keep trying to reduce the amount of time it takes to get people through that recruitment pipeline, encourage even more people to apply.

ASHEAD: Just before I let you go, obviously the biggest talking point around Federal Government at the moment is, you know, response around Gaza and Palestine. Are you comfortable with the PM's position that, yes, he'd like to recognise a Palestinian state and indeed a two state solution, but not yet?

MINISTER KEOGH: I think the PM's position is both clear, it's calibrated and it reflects where, you know, Australia's engagement with that region, which is. We've always taken the position that a two state solution is where people, where we need to get to. But we also need to make sure that we're doing that in a way that respects Israel's sovereignty as well. And in the circumstances that we have been confronted with. We saw the big march over the weekend and I think what that broadly reflects is what the Australian Government wants to see and what people in Australia want to see, which is peace in the Middle East and also that, you know, none of that conflict is brought here to Australia and it was a peaceful demonstration of, of support for peace in the Middle east, which I think, you know, Australians probably support.

ASHEAD: You accept, though, that there can be no recognition of a Palestinian state, be it a one or a state or a two state solution, while Hamas have any play in the matter and have hostages.

MINISTER KEOGH: Yeah, the PM has been really clear about that, that we've got to have a situation where, you know, hostages are returned. We've got to have a situation where Hamas is not involved in any way with whatever sort of, you know, government is established for, for Palestine. It has to be a situation where Palestine and the region support the continued existence of Israel that can, know what you know, that cannot be in any way under threat. But we also need to see that there is movement happening towards Palestinian statehood and that's what the Prime Minister has outlined. And I think people see that as a well calibrated, reasonable response to the circumstances that are being confronted there. You know, we need to see the return of hostages, we need to see a ceasefire. People don't want to see conflict anywhere in the world. And you know, what we've been seeing in the Middle East. No one wants to see that occurring.

ASHEAD: Matt Keogh, thanks very much for coming in and making yourself available today. Appreciate it.

MINISTER KEOGH: Been great to be with you, Gary. Cheers.