Television Interview, Today Show

SUBJECTS: Australia-China relationship; Talisman Sabre 2025

SARAH ABO, HOST: Well, he's walked the Great Wall of China and now the PM is facing another uphill battle, maintaining ties with Beijing while keeping Donald Trump on side. To discuss, let's bring in Acting Prime Minister Richard Marles, who joins us from Melbourne. Richard, good morning to you. The red carpet's been rolled out for the PM. He's walked the Great Wall, he's had a succulent Chinese banquet. But beyond the smiles and handshakes, what has actually been achieved?

RICHARD MARLES, ACTING PRIME MINISTER: Well, look, our relationship with China is obviously a relationship which matters. It's a relationship which has lots of challenges within it and when we're not shy about that, we're very upfront. But it's also a relationship which has opportunity. It's our largest trading partner. But the most important point, Sarah, is that it's a relationship which benefits from engagement. And that's why we do engage with China through an annual leaders meeting, but also through other ministerial dialogue. And so the meeting of the Prime Minister with President Xi, this visit, is really important in stabilising what is a very complex relationship. We've seen the benefits of that stabilisation through the resumption of trade and even in the national security space. I mean, it doesn't resolve the challenges that we face there, but it does build a better understanding and what we want to see is better levels of communication.

ABO: You have in the past defended Australia's involvement in any conflict the US might have with Taiwan. And there were some awkward moments that we saw over there these past few days, including our position on Taiwan. Does Australia believe in an independent Taiwan?

MARLES: Well, our position on Taiwan hasn't changed. It's the same position that has been there for a very long period of time. And fundamentally, Sarah, it is about not seeing any unilateral change to the status quo across the Taiwan Strait.

ABO: So, why didn't the PM address that specifically?

MARLES: Well, the Prime Minister has said exactly that in, in the remarks that the Prime Minister has made in relation to Taiwan. He has repeatedly said that our position is to see no unilateral change to the status quo across the Taiwan Strait. That's the important statement to make in relation to Taiwan. I mean, it's a position which has been developed over a long period of time, shared with countries around the world, but fundamentally being able to articulate that we do not want to see any unilateral change to the status quo across the Taiwan Strait is about saying that what we want to see is a maintenance of peace.

ABO: All right, well, I mean, as we can all appreciate, the PM is certainly being tested. But given that Defence is your wheelhouse and we are talking about defence ties here, can you answer this question for us? Are Chinese warships monitoring our Operation Talisman war drills at the moment?

MARLES: Look, they're not, but they have in the past. They might-

ABO: You're certain that they're not right now spying on us again?

MARLES: Right now. But, but it might happen over the coming days and weeks. That's what has happened in previous versions of Talisman Sabre-

ABO: Are you basically conceding we’re powerless to stop it?

MARLES: Well, the countries have a right to observe and as long as they're acting in accordance with international law-

ABO: What would happen, Richard, if we did the same to China?

MARLES: Well, the point is here, Sarah, our Navy is much more in the vicinity of China than the Chinese Navy is in the vicinity of Australia. And that's why we always come back to the point about observing international law here because it's really important that our Navy is able to continue doing the work that it does within the vicinity of the country-

ABO: But Richard, they're not even giving us a heads up. I mean, the PM went over there, he had a diplomatic mission and he was very kind, and smiles and the handshakes that we've mentioned before, yet he couldn't get the Chinese President to commit to simply giving us a heads up next time they are near our coast. I mean, if it's a Virgin pilot who is alerting the Australian authorities that there are Chinese warships off our coast – that is something to be alarmed about, especially as a Defence Minister. They're not going to give us a heads up?

MARLES: Well, Sarah, I mean, there are some assertions that you've made there which aren’t correct. But the fundamental point is we ask that countries engage in accordance with the rules based order with the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea. China did that. And the reason we have used that as our baseline is because we are much more often in the vicinity of China than China is in the vicinity of Australia. And the reason for that is because that's where our trade routes are, that's where our sea lines of communication are. The bulk of the work of the Royal Australian Navy is in places like the South China Sea, the East China Sea, the waters north of Australia. And it's really important that they are able to continue to do that work. And they, of course, do that work in accordance with international law, where what we do is assert freedom of navigation on the high seas. Now, we need to continue to do that, and it's important we are not establishing some standard in Australia, you know, in the vicinity of Australia, which would compromise the ability for the Royal Australian Navy to do its work there. So, we do act in a consistent manner, and what we seek from China is actions in a consistent manner as well. Now, in terms of the live firing exercise, we would have preferred that there was more notice. We would certainly give more notice. And it is a point that we made to China at the time, a point that the Prime Minister has made to China in his visits there. And it's an example of where there are challenges in the relationship, and we will continue to manage those. But I come back to where I started –engagement helps improve the relationship, and that's what's important.

ABO: Yeah, exactly. The point is, are they listening? Thank you so much for joining us this morning, Richard, I appreciate your time.

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