Doorstop Interview, London

SUBJECTS: Australia UK relationship; AUKUS; Middle East Conflict; NATO

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, today I was able to meet with John Healey, the Secretary of Defence here in the United Kingdom. It was my first meeting with Secretary Healy since our election in May of this year, and it was a great opportunity to be able to reaffirm the importance of the bilateral Australia and UK defence relationship. We've worked very closely together since the election of the Starmer Labor government in July of last year on all the equities that we have within the defence relationship. But of course, very central to them is AUKUS and Australia acquiring a nuclear-powered submarine capability. We were able to talk about that, talk about how we can advance that. Talk about the upcoming 2+2 AUKMIN meeting, which we are hoping to conduct in Australia in the next couple of months. But it was really a moment to absolutely affirm just how significant the UK-Australia relationship is today in a very complex and volatile world, this is a long standing relationship built on an enormous foundation of trust and a relationship which is really pertinent and precious at this moment.

JOURNALIST: You say complex and volatile world, and obviously AUKUS is under review. What did you discuss about that in terms of America, and how confident are you?

MARLES: Well, we both affirm that this was a perfectly natural step for an incoming administration to take. It's very similar to the step that the UK government took itself last year on its election, indeed, the same step that we took when we were elected to government back in May of 2022. Reviewing defence posture, reviewing a really major defence initiative such as this, to see how an incoming government can best work with it is a very natural step to take. We both indicated that we were keen to engage with the United States on the review, and we looked positively about the process of it and its outcome. But in the meantime, we are working at a pace to implement the AUKUS arrangements, and this is a major step forward for both the United Kingdom and Australia. I mean, underpinning AUKUS will be the idea that in the future, Australia and the UK will be operating the same class of submarine. That's a very significant step to take in terms of binding our two countries together, and there's much work to do to achieve that.

JOURNALIST: There have been concerns about sort of the industry capacity and whether or not there is the skill set available to meet the timelines that have been set out for AUKUS. Did you discuss that, and are you concerned?

MARLES: Getting the human dimension right is one of the key challenges that all that we face, and that is faced here And we are working very closely with the UK, as we are, of course, with the United States, to meet that challenge. But actually we feel a sense of confidence that we can meet that challenge. We are having Australians being trained in both the UK and the US right now on skills in relation to the maintenance and sustainment of nuclear-powered submarines as of course we have submariners and their skills operating these submarines. So we are confident that we can get this right, but we're not sanguine about it. There is a lot of work to be done to meet the human challenge, but we believe we can get it done.

JOURNALIST: Mr. Marles, you mentioned a discussion about the acquisition of submarines in the recently published Defence Review in the UK. So Starmer indicated that they were going to boost their own consumption. Are you open to potentially assuming that the US potentially withdraws the option of purchasing Virginia class submarines being open, or exploring the option of acquiring stop gap submarines from the UK?

MARLES: Well, we have focused on pursuing the optimal pathway, which we announced in March of 2023 which does see Australia acquiring Virginia class submarines from the United States from the early 2030s- that's the part that we are walking down. That's the way in which we are able to acquire a capability, which closes the capability gap which really we inherited when we came to government, and it's the best way in which we seek to achieve that. Now, that arrangement is an agreement between our three countries, one which is now underpinned at a treaty level. We're working very closely with the United States in pursuing that. You know, right now, what we need to be seeing is the United States production and sustainment rate of Virginia class submarines increased, so that by the early 2030s there is the space for that acquisition to occur. So on the basis of that that we are right now financially contributing to the US industrial basis, we are contributing people to working within it- there's about 120, 130 Australians right now in Pearl Harbor working on getting Virginia class submarines to sea. Now that's very good from an Australian point of view in terms of building their skills, which is what we need to see happen. But it's also very good from the United States point of view. So that's the path that we're walking on, and we're confident we can achieve that.

JOURNALIST: On that, if the 30 day AUKUS review comes back and the United States presents to you, say the option of we need to invest more into our industrial base to ensure that we can produce enough Virginia class subs to meet both our needs and Australia's needs. Is the government prepared to contribute above and beyond the $3 billion that's already been committed?

MARLES: Well, I'm not going to speculate about what the review will ultimately say what we do have, though, is an agreement between our three countries about how to walk forward in achieving the optimal pathway, and that involves the contributions that we are currently making to the US industrial base, and those are contributions which are well understood by the United States and gratefully received by the United States. They know that the effort that we're making to put them in a position to have the production and sustainment rates at a level which we'll see Virginia's at sea at the at the required amount, which will provide the space for the Australian acquisition to occur. Like we know that this is a challenge, and we knew that at the time that we signed the agreement in relation to the optimal pathway, but it's a challenge that I think all of us feel that we can ultimately meet.

JOURNALIST: Who else have you met with today?

MARLES: Well, I met with Charles Woodburn, the CEO of BAE. And again, BAE is the strategic partner in relation to- well lots of matters, in relation to our defence force- but particularly in respect of AUKUS and the building of our future nuclear-powered submarine in Australia. BAE is also is the prime contractor in respect of the Hunter class brigade. So there are many equities that we have with BAE in terms of our defence force. And it was a really good opportunity to catch up with Charles. 

JOURNALIST: Are you able to deliver an update on the Hunter class frigates- where the progress is, was that part of your discussions today?

MARLES: Well, we have an ongoing conversation with BAE about that. Look, we're very happy with the progress of the Hunter class frigates. And since we've come to office, over the last three years, we've really seen this program move in a very positive direction, and we feel confident about being able to see the Hunters come into service based on the timeline that we've now put in place since we've come to government.

JOURNALIST: What are you hoping to get out of the NATO Summit over the next couple of days? 

MARLES: Yeah look, the NATO Summit is a meeting which has grown in stature in terms of Australia's priorities and Australia's world view, I'd say that really, over the last five or so years. It's a summit that the Prime Minister himself has attended a couple of times. This is now the second summit that I'll be attending. But I think what it speaks to is that we live in a world where there is a much greater degree of connection between the Indo Pacific on one hand, and the North Atlantic on the other. We are finding that so many things which are happening in our respective theatres are of relevance to all of us. So this will be a fantastic opportunity to be able to meet with counterparts throughout Europe and other NATO countries, but also other counterparts from the Indo Pacific as well, who will be attending the NATO Summit. What I think we all have in common is a maintenance of the rules based order at a time when the rules based order is under pressure, not just here in Europe, but also in the Indo Pacific. And really talking about how we can work together as countries that are like minded and that share a commitment to the international rules based order, wherever that order is, is something that we look forward to doing. 

JOURNALIST: Of course, some countries have said that America isn't following the rules based order. Would you say the strikes in Iran were legal?

MARLES: We have made very clear our concern about Iran's nuclear ballistic missile program and what that represented to the peace and stability of not only in the Middle East region, but the world. And there has been a lot of opportunity for Iran to come to the negotiating table in relation to its program, that has not occurred.- 

JOURNALIST: Weren’t they at the negotiating table?

MARLES: Well not at the level that we would be wanting to see. We have remained very concerned about the program that Iran has pursued, and that has led to the situation that we have now seen play out. And ultimately, these strikes were about dealing with that. As the Prime Minister has made very clear, that's where Australia's position is at. But as the Prime Minister has also made clear, as the President of the United States has made clear, now is the time to pursue peace. We very much call on Iran to be restrained in terms of its reaction to this. It matters that we are de-escalating now and that we are pursuing a pathway of peace. These were strikes which were very focused on the nuclear enterprise which existed within Iran, and we made clear our concerns about that enterprise for the peace and security of the world. 

JOURNALIST: So were they legal? 

MARLES: Well, as I said, we have made very clear our concerns about where Iran was going in terms of its nuclear and ballistic missile program. The idea of Iran acquiring a nuclear weapon is obviously unacceptable. And we have been committed to the Non-Proliferation Treaty for a long period of time, it has underpinned Non-Proliferation in the world, but really it has been the most effective management of non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, and what Iran was seeking to do with its program represented a real threat to that. I think President Macron spoke very forcefully and eloquently about the threat that this program represented when he addressed the Shangri La dialogue in Singapore just a few weeks ago. Those comments were very pertinent, and what we have seen now is a function of where Iran was taking this. But from here on in, what matters now is that we do pursue a pathway of peace and that we de-escalate what is playing out in the Middle East. 

JOURNALIST: I assume you've seen comments from Russia's President suggesting that the strikes were not only illegal, but could ultimately result in severe retaliation and repercussions for the United States. If Russia becomes involved in the Middle East, and the situation does escalate, will Australia back the US in conducting more military action?

MARLES: Well, the last thing I'm about to do is engage in speculation or comment on hypotheticals. I think right now, what we want to see is a de-escalation in what is playing out in the Middle East. Now is the moment to pursue a pathway for peace. And as the Prime Minister has said, we very much call on Iran to engage with restraint from this moment forward.

JOURNALIST: Were any Australian military facilities like Pine Gap used for intelligence for the American mission?

MARLES: Well, we would never comment about the intelligence matters. As the Prime Minister has made clear, as the United States have made clear, this was a unilateral action on the part of the United States. 

JOURNALIST: Andrew Hastie and some other people in the industry have said that there needs to be more transparency when it comes to what the US military is doing on Australian soil. Are you willing to provide that to Australians?

MARLES: Well, I think there is actually a high degree of transparency in relation to the United States presence in Australia. We have long had full knowledge and concurrence arrangements in relation to America's force posture in Australia, not just in relation to Pine Gap, but in relation to all of its force posture in Australia. And there is a sovereignty- set of sovereignty arrangements which underpins that, I've spoken about that in the Parliament, and that does give Australians a sense of confidence about how America operates in Australia and the permissions that are required when America is operating in Australia. 

JOURNALIST: Can you tell us, what will you be discussing with Trump at NATO?

MARLES: Well, I'm not about to speculate on what meetings I have at NATO. I'm really looking forward to the meetings at NATO. We'll work up our program of meetings which go alongside the main NATO meetings, and we'll take it from there.

ENDS