Doorstop Interview, 2025 NATO Summit - The Hague

SUBJECTS: NATO; Defence technology; Defence spending; AUKUS; Middle East conflict

JOURNALIST: Deputy Prime Minister, can you just talk us through your day at NATO- at the NATO summit today?

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, RICHARD MARLES: So today, we have signed an agreement with NATO support and procurement organization, which will see Australia being able to procure through that organization, but also for Australian companies to be able to supply through the organization. So that's a very practical but significant agreement that we've been able to sign with the director of NATO's support and procurement organization. I've had bilateral meetings today with Canada, with Sweden and with Ukraine, all of which have been really important. And of course, I've come here from London yesterday, where I had a bilateral with John Healey, my counterpart in the UK. Tonight, there is the formal dinner, and then we have tomorrow. 

JOURNALIST: You said it was your first day here, what was kind of the key takeaway, of the thing that stood out to you most during your time here today?

MARLES: When I was at the meeting- the NATO meeting in Washington last year, it was really clear that there was a strong connection between the Indo Pacific on the one hand, and the North Atlantic on the other- both theatres are influencing each other. And I think that was very clear as well at the recent Shangri La Dialogue in Singapore. And I very much feel that during the course of the day, as I've been speaking with counterparts here in Europe, they're deeply interested in what's happening in the Indo Pacific, as of course, we are in what's happening here in Europe. And the capacity to- or the opportunity to compare notes, but also to look at ways in which we can cooperate together in defence industry, but also more broadly, is really useful. I think also specifically in relation to Ukraine, I was able to reaffirm with Minister Umerov, our commitment to continue to support Ukraine for as long as it takes for Ukraine to resolve this conflict on its terms. We stand shoulder to shoulder with Ukraine, and that is a sentiment which is very much appreciated. We continue to support Ukraine, of course, most recently, with our commitment of Abrams tanks, and that was very welcome, and we continue to talk with Ukraine about how we can provide support in the future.

JOURNALIST: On procurement and supply, can you identify any bits of technology that Australia might be able to export to other NATO alliance partners, or any bits of gear that Australia is looking to purchase?

MARLES: Well, I probably wouldn't go into the specifics. I mean, we are doing a wide range of procurements across the ADF, and there is a strong European presence in the Australian Defence Force and Australian defence industry in or European defence industry in Australia. I mean, you can look at companies like Thales, which are out of France, or Saab, out of Sweden- both have a presence in Australia. And you know, Saab does significant work in terms of the combat management systems in our Navy, Thales builds the Bushmasters in Bendigo. So there is a very strong connection already between our respective defence industries, and we look at ways in which we can do more. If you look, for example, at the development of drones, and drones is a very significant part of the way in which conflict and warfare is developing in Ukraine, you've got a couple of really significant Australian drone makers who are very engaged in supporting Ukraine in its efforts. So, I mean there's lots of opportunities. And I think one of the things that we are seeing is a real growth of defence industry here in Europe, and that does present a whole lot of opportunities for Australia to engage with that. 

JOURNALIST: All the agreements have been signed leading up to this, with the 31 member nations, with them being able to get to 5 per cent of GDP spending by spending- like counting money on logistics, cyber, infrastructure, other defence. Do we have a total or do we have an idea, if we added that amount of money that Australia is spending, what level of percentage of GDP we're at?

MARLES: Yeah, look, it's a really good question. And what, I think highlights is that, you know, we have gone about the business of not chasing a number, but thinking about what is our capability need, and then resourcing it. Now that actually has driven, in the last couple of years, the biggest peacetime increase in Australia's defence spending that we've seen. So it definitely is generating an increase. But we actually, when you do get into the detail of this, and that, I can assure you, the detail matters, it is a really good question. We actually look at defence spending in a more narrow way than many other countries. And so often, when you see numbers like this, you aren't comparing like for like. I mean, comparing countries- benchmarking each other, is something which is going to happen- we understand that. But fundamentally, the way in which we go about our resourcing our defence needs, which is the way every country does it, is to think about what our need is, what our capability need is, and then going on and resourcing it, and that's what we're focused on doing. And in doing that, and in seeing a significant increase in defence spending, actually, it means that we have a very good story to tell at a meeting like this, and it is a story which is recognized around the world. 

JOURNALIST: Forgive my language is Donald Trump right when he says that ‘Israel and Iran don't know what the fuck they're doing’?

MARLES: I will always forgive your language. I'm not aware of that quote. Look, I think we all want to see a de-escalation in what is occurring in the Middle East. You know that said, we have been very clear about the threat to peace and stability within the Middle East, but in fact, the world that has been presented by Iran's nuclear and ballistic missile program. Iran cannot be allowed to gain a nuclear weapon, and what we saw in the American strikes was a focus on sites which were about the nuclear enterprise. From this moment forward, what we need to see, though, is a de-escalation, and that's what we're calling for.

JOURNALIST: Donald Trump is on his way to this summit. Do you expect to meet with him here? Is that on the agenda tomorrow?

MARLES: Well, it's not specifically on the agenda. And I wouldn't want to overstate any of that. I think we are in large rooms with lots of people, and these meetings, gatherings like this, end up being pretty fluid in terms of the bilaterals that you end up organising. But look, it is a really significant gathering for us to attend, and the importance of the NATO Summit has grown in terms of the way in which we engage with the world. And I would say that over the last few years, the Prime Minister has attended two of these- this is now the second that I've attended. It really is an increasingly important gathering for us. And it comes back to the first question. I think the way in which the Indo Pacific on the one hand and the North Atlantic on the other are influencing each other is growing. What's happening here in Europe, what's happening, specifically in the war in Ukraine is engaging Australia's national interests, and it's a really important gathering for us to attend.

JOURNALIST: There was a background briefing for IP4 journalists, so it's not something you'd be aware of, but in there, it was reported Donald Trump might not have time, and likely won't have time for these scheduled meetings for the IP4 partners. Is that something that you've heard, and if it has is something you've heard? Do you have an opportunity to perhaps meet with the US president at another time, while he's here in The Hague?

MARLES: Look again, I wouldn't want to be overstating any of that. I'll be meeting with my defence counterparts, so it's not something I'm expecting. The IP4 meeting with representatives of the IP4 we will seek to do tomorrow, and that's important. Obviously, meeting with the Secretary General of NATO itself we will be pursuing that. But I come back to what I said earlier, to be here at the NATO summit is a genuinely important gathering in terms of the connectedness between our two regions and us better understanding what's happening in Europe and how that very much influences the way in which we are thinking about our own strategic direction and our own defence posture.

JOURNALIST: Anthony Albanese, obviously is not here. Neither are the leaders of South Korea or Japan. Do you think it sets a bad example- it sets a bad image for Donald Trump looking towards the Indo Pacific, that where three of the four leaders of the IP4 that aren't here?

MARLES: No. And again, I wouldn't read too much into that. I mean, at any given multilateral there are reasons why leaders are able to or not able to attend. And there's been a lot of commentary about the extensive agenda for the Prime Minister overseas during the course of this year. And so, you know, he needs to balance all of that. And this is a meeting that I was able to attend last year on behalf of Australia, and I'm able to do so again this year. I don't read anything particularly into Japan and Korea not being present here at a leader level, but they are very much represented here at this meeting. I come back to what I said before. I think when you look at what's going on in the world and when you- certainly was the feeling in Washington last year, it was the feeling in Singapore just a couple of weeks ago- there is an increasing relevance to each other about the Indo Pacific theatre and the North Atlantic theatre. And I think you will over the journey, see an increase in the engagement between the two theatres and countries such as the IP4 and countries in North America and Europe.

JOURNALIST: I don't have the exact quote, so forgive me, but Keir Starmer had met with Donald Trump, and came away saying that he believes that Mr. Trump intends to move ahead with the capability of the Alliance- if you want to call it that, for lack of a better term. Have you received that information that the US intends fully to proceed with this despite the congressional review that it's conducting? 

MARLES: We're talking about AUKUS?

JOURNALIST: Yes. 

MARLES: Well, I mean, AUKUS is underpinned by a treaty between our three countries. We have a sense of confidence about where AUKUS is going, and where AUKUS is going under this administration. I've had a couple of meetings with Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth in relation to AUKUS, they've been positive. We welcome the review, which is being undertaken by the administration. It's a natural thing for an incoming government to do. It's what we did when we came to government in May of 2022, it's what the UK Government did when they were elected to office in July of last year. Understanding how a significant defence initiative like this is operating and how an incoming government can best take it forward is an obvious thing to be doing, and that's what we see happening in respect of this review, and we will work with the US in relation to it. In the meantime, we continue to work in preceding AUKUS at a pace.

JOURNALIST: Just on repatriation flights. Can you give us an update as to how that's going and if there's any more planned? 

MARLES: So I can confirm that there was an assisted departure that left Tel Aviv in the last few hours. There are 119 Australians on board. We were very pleased to be able to provide that flight, and they've now been relocated to a place within the region, which is obviously outside of the danger zone, and we continue to have assets in the region ready to be able to provide assistance- both military assets, and this was Royal Australian Air Force aircraft which did this assisted departure. But also we've chartered civilian aircraft to be able to do departures in certain circumstances as well. So, we were very pleased to be able to have the RAAF flight have an assisted departure of 119 Australians out of Tel Aviv in the last few hours.

JOURNALIST: Sorry, just one more, just because is that assistance ongoing in both Israel and places like the border with Iran and Turkey for Australians, even though we appear to be in a cease fire proper now?

MARLES: Well, we continue to have a couple of assets within the region, a KC-30 and a C-17, and both were able to take hundreds of people in a flight. As I say, in this flight, which was with the KC-30, we were able to take 119 out of Tel Aviv. The circumstances are different between Israel and Iran, obviously. We will look at how we can do assisted departures from both countries. Right now, there is, and this number continues to grow, we've had about 3,000 Australians in Iran register their interest in assisted departure, and north of 1,000 people in Israel do the same. So we are poised to be able to do what we can in relation to that. We have hundreds now of Australian Defence Force personnel in the region who are there supporting these flights. We've got DFAT consular staff who are in Azerbaijan also providing assistance for those who cross that border by land out of Iran. You know, obviously there is a significant need here. We welcome the cease fire, because that's fundamentally what is the most important step. If we can see a de-escalation of the conflict and that Israel and Iran itself become safer, I mean, that is the most important step that can be taken here. But we will continue to be poised to help Australians who are seeking assisted departure. Thank you.

ENDS