Radio Interview, ABC Melbourne

SUBJECTS: Middle East Conflict; AUKUS. 

ALI MOORE, HOST: Richard Marles is the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister for Defence. Minister, welcome back to Drive.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Good afternoon, Ali. How are you?

MOORE: I'm good. Can we start maybe with the evacuation of Australians? I know you've helped some people, I believe, leave Israel. Iran is a bigger challenge.

MARLES: Yeah, I think that's fair to say. And it's been a small number of people that have been assisted out of Israel by land. Really the opportunity that will arise, we hope, to evacuate the kind of numbers that are being spoken about is if airspace opens up over Israel and Iran, which is not the case now. So, to put that in context, when I was last briefed, and I suspect these numbers will have grown since then, there's about 1,500 Australians in Iran who are seeking an assisted departure. There's about 1,200 in Israel. It's literally a handful of people we've been able to get out, by land so far out of Israel. But we are doing a lot of preparatory work to have air assets in place so that if and when airspace opens up over Iran and Israel, there is actually an opportunity to get a significant assisted departure to occur.

MOORE: So, you actually getting Australian planes in there, or are you going to rely on allies?

MARLES: Yeah, look, I won't go into the detail yet, but we're working up a number of options here, both with our own defence forces and also looking at civilian options. And it really is ends up being a pragmatic decision based on what kind of a plane you can get into wherever you're needing to go quickest. And so exactly what option ends up being used will very much depend. But we are working all of those options up right now.

MOORE: Is it reasonable that a global leader says, ‘maybe I will, maybe I won't’?

MARLES: Well, look, I'm not going to comment on that. Right now, we are seeing a conflict playing out between Israel and Iran. We absolutely acknowledge Israel's right to defend itself. We absolutely acknowledge the threat to the regional peace and security, really the global peace and security that's posed by Iran's nuclear ballistic missile program. Having said all of that, what we want to see is de-escalation because we're deeply concerned that the way events are playing out right now gives rise to the potential for further escalation. So, we-

MOORE: Well, that's what it would be, I mean, if the US got involved, that would be further escalation. So, I mean, what do you think that, you know, there are, there is a potential that America will get involved?

MARLES: Well, I'm not going to speculate on what America does and I think it's important that a person in my position should not speculate. What we are making really clear is that we want to see a de-escalation of what is occurring right now and a priority placed upon diplomacy and dialogue. And that really is where we want this to be heading.

MOORE: Are you being kept in the loop at all with US deliberations or do you read it as we do?

MARLES: Again, it's difficult for me to answer that question in fullness, in public. I mean, obviously we have very close links with the United States. Obviously we are getting our own confidential and classified briefings, which I really can't speak about. So, we do have knowledge of what's going on- and that is very important, I might say, in terms of helping us plan for things like assisted departures of Australians who are in the vicinity and in the region. Obviously we are also very mindful of our own staff, meaning those who are working in the embassy in Tehran and the embassy in Tel Aviv. But also there is a limited number of defence force personnel who are in the region as well. So, we clearly are monitoring their safety and that they are all accounted for and safe, but we continue to monitor their safety. So, we're across all of that.

MOORE: And in fact, can you give us an idea of what military assets we have in the Middle East? I think we actually have some peacekeeping roles there-

MARLES: Correct. 

MOORE: But what do we have in the region?

MARLES: Yeah, well, without going through the numbers, but it is a very small number- think handfuls. We're involved in UN peacekeeping missions on the border of Israel and Syria, on the border of Israel and Lebanon for a long time, and these peacekeeping operations have been in place for a long time. We've got slightly more people in the Sinai and that dates back decades- our contribution to the UN mission there. They're a bit further away from this and there are some planning elements as well. So, it's not a large number of people. It's part of a long standing commitment that we've made through the United Nations in terms of peacekeeping. But they are in the region and obviously we are very much keeping in contact with them and making sure that they are safe and secure.

MOORE: If the US gets involved in this conflict, do we get involved in this conflict?

MARLES: Well, again, I'm not going to speculate on what America may or may not do. I don't think it helps for me to be starting to answer questions around hypotheticals there or to speculate. Right now-

MOORE: But I do think Australians would like to know, don't you think, you know, where we sit in this alliance, and particularly given that we are lockstep with them through AUKUS. So, does that mean that we can be lockstep with them through AUKUS, but then if they get involved in a conflict, wherever it may be, we have no role? I think most Australians would just like to know what it actually means.

MARLES: Well, I think there are some things that we need to be clear about in terms of the way you've asked the question. AUKUS is not an alliance. AUKUS is a technology sharing agreement between ourselves, the United Kingdom and the US, which has right now front and centre, both the US and the UK cooperating with Australia to acquiring a nuclear-powered submarine capability. So, AUKUS is not relevant to any of this-

MOORE: But it does tie us together in terms of our defence equipment, doesn't it, for years to come?

MARLES: It is a technology sharing arrangement. Really, the alliance that we definitely do have with the United States is a function of the ANZUS treaty, which dates back to the 1950s, you know, that obliges us to consult with each other when either of our nations is under attack. And so that's where the alliance relationship comes in there. Our position in relation to this conflict, and that's really the pertinent answer to this question, is we want to see a de-escalation. That's how we're exercising our international voice. We want to see diplomacy and dialogue being prioritised in this moment. We do absolutely acknowledge Israel's right to defend itself. We absolutely acknowledge the threat to the world of Iran's nuclear and ballistic missile program. But we are calling for diplomacy and dialogue in this moment- de-escalation in this moment. And we are deeply worried about this conflict- potential to give rise to escalation. And in exercising our voice in that way, I might say we are doing so alongside many other countries around the world.

MOORE: And you won't countenance what role Australia could have if there is an escalation, not a de-escalation.

MARLES: Well, what I'm reluctant to do is to answer questions that begin with ‘if’. It is not- it doesn't help for someone in my role to be speculating about all of that now. We will deal with what is in front of us. And what is in front of us right now is this conflict. And our attitude to this conflict is that we want to see de-escalation and a priority placed on diplomacy and dialogue.

MOORE: Richard Marles, it would be good to stay in contact with you. Clearly, this is an unfolding situation as we speak. So, good to talk to you.

MARLES: Thanks, Ali.

ENDS