Television Interview, Sky News

SUBJECTS: Shangri-La Dialogue; Australia-US Relationship; AUKUS; Defence Funding. 

TOM CONNELL, HOST: The Deputy Prime Minister is attending a defence dialogue in Singapore. It's his first overseas trip since the election. His focus is going to be on proliferation in Asia-Pacific. His agenda including as well a key meeting with the US Defense Secretary. AUKUS, no doubt part of the agenda. And he joins me now, the Defence Minister and Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles. Appreciate your time today. So, looking at your subject matter, proliferation in Asia-Pacific, look, it sounds sort of harmless, but cutting to what this might actually mean, how much talk is there, whether it be publicly or privately, of a real risk of some sort of conflict in Asia-Pacific even in the next year or two?

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, what we're all trying to do is avoid that, Tom. And indeed, the topic of the speech is really about how we can deal with restraints, constraints on arms proliferation in a modern context and certainly within our region and what role all of us can play in terms of trying to make sure that we are contributing to the collective security of the region in which we all live, and to make sure that we avoid any form of conflict in the future. And obviously that's at the heart of what our strategic and defence policy has been over the last three years and continues to be. And tomorrow I'll talk a bit about how Australia makes that contribution. But this fundamentally is the issue that all of us need to be focused upon.

CONNELL: I'm sure a lot of people are focused on it. What's your sense? You've been in this job now and in government three years. Is the risk higher or lower since you started?

MARLES: Well, we talked a lot when we came to office back in May of 2022, that we were facing the most complex, in some ways the most threatening strategic landscape that our nation had faced since the end of the Second World War. And nothing in the last three years has made that simpler. Indeed, I think if anything, in the last three years that situation has become more complex. And so, you know, we still face a very uncertain and volatile world, and it's one where we need to be making sure that we as a nation are more capable in terms of what we can actually bring to bear, what we can bring to the table, but also where we are strengthening the relationships that we have with traditional partners – of course, our Alliance with the United States, but also with the countries of the region and the world. And that's what we've been doing.

CONNELL: You've met with your US counterpart, Pete Hegseth. Have you been given any sort of reassurance – you mentioned their capability – on one of the key timelines that refurbished 2035– or Virginia class sub will be delivered to Australia by 2035?

MARLES: Well, we've been– I did meet with my counterpart, Secretary Hegseth this morning. It was a really good meeting. It was built on the meeting that we had in February in Washington D.C. We talked about how we can work more together and build our collective efforts to provide for the security, the stability of the Indo‑Pacific and provide for an Indo‑Pacific which is underpinned by the values that our two countries share of democracy and the rule of law. AUKUS is very much a part of that. And when I met with Secretary Hegseth back in February in Washington, Secretary Hegseth made clear the support of the administration for AUKUS. We spoke about it again today. We are moving forward with AUKUS in the context of the optimal pathway that we announced back in March of 2023. And what we're wanting to do is to do that in a way which is of the absolute maximum benefit to all three countries. And I'm very optimistic about the way in which we can work together with the United States, but also work with the United States and the United Kingdom to bring AUKUS to fruition.

CONNELL: Ok, but if that date slips at all, I mean, the more notice we have the better. Have you got any negative indication at all from the Trump administration and Pete Hegseth around 2035 being that delivery date?

MARLES: Well, we are working to achieve what the optimal pathway is, which is in fact to see the first Virginia delivered in the early 2030s. So, that's what we announced back in March of 2023. That's what we're all working towards. And we want to make sure that we are doing everything we can to see that happen. And indeed we have been making sure that all the timelines that we've had to meet are being met right now. In the immediate term, what that is actually about is seeing that there are increased visits of American nuclear‑powered submarines to Australia. That's been happening. That we are seeing Australians being trained both in the sustainment and maintenance of nuclear‑powered submarines. We've got more than 100 Australians right now in Pearl Harbor working on US vessels so that they are contributing to the American industrial base, but importantly getting that really important experience for us. The same is happening amongst our submariner cohort. The Submarine Rotational Force – West is on track to see American submarines rotating through HMAS Stirling in the next couple of years.

CONNELL: There's an ASPI report out which suggests, you know, AUKUS is worthy spending, but essentially it's hoovering up a lot of spending within Defence and perhaps mean we might not be that ready for a shorter term conflict. Have you read it? Do you have an open mind to it?

MARLES: Well, I haven’t gone through every word of it, Tom, but I understand what's in it and I don't accept that. I mean, it's just not right to be suggesting that that is what's happening in the way in which the ASPI report does. I mean, the fact of the matter is that you can look at a whole range of areas beyond what we're doing in AUKUS and you are seeing us provide readiness right now. We took delivery of a couple of HIMARS units back in March, which is increasing our capacity for long‑range fires for our Army right now. I mean that's happening right now. You can see our Army being transformed as we speak into a much more mobile, a much more amphibious Army, which is exactly what the Defence Strategic Review sought. We are going down the pathway of establishing a Guided Weapons and Explosive Ordnance Enterprise in Australia which will see the beginnings of the manufacture of missiles in Australia this year. Now all of that is not AUKUS. That is what we are doing beyond that. And in fact we've got real steps forward. And what's being underpinned there is a significant increase in defence funding.

CONNELL: The report didn't say zero, it just spoke about timelines of some of these things. Let me ask you this, because ASPI is a Commonwealth owned company that reports to Parliament via you. Do you retain confidence in the organisation?

MARLS: Well, I think it's– I mean what we need to see is deep, thoughtful analysis. I think it's reasonable, as the Prime Minister did, to hold ASPI to account in relation to the analysis that it provides. 

CONNELL: What does that mean?

MARLES: Well, it’s the simplest thing in the world–

CONNELL: He said have a look at themselves and the way they conduct themselves. Doesn't that say this report's no good, don't do this again. What's that message?

MARLES: Well, I think, Tom, it's as simple as this: it's the easiest thing in the world to go out there and say “oh, you need more money”. Well, in fact, there has been much more money spent on defence. And if you look at what we inherited from the Coalition, you know, we had $42 billion worth of unfunded projects. I mean, this report talks about the impact of inflation. In fact, inflation is built into defence funding and that is not articulated in the report. But it doesn't matter what you’re talking about in terms of inflation, if you actually don't fund the projects in the first place, which is what the Coalition did when they were in government, inflation is irrelevant, you simply don't have money for future capability. Now, we have dealt with that. We have put defence onto a sound footing. We have given rise to the biggest increase in defence spending in peacetime Australia. That is not acknowledged in the report. And we have absolutely given a strategic clarity to what our Defence Force is trying to do and the challenge that it's trying to meet. And we are building a Defence Force to meet all of that. None of that is articulated in the ASPI report. To come forward and simply say, “well, you need more money” is not deeply intellectually satisfying, nor is it a really deep expression of analysis. And I think that's the point that the Prime Minister was making.

CONNELL: I know you've got a hard out. I'll respect that. I don't want you late for your next meeting. And, yeah, not looking to create any incidents. So, Richard Marles, Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister, appreciate your time live on Sky News.

CONNELL: Thanks, Tom.

ENDS