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The Hon Richard Marles MP

Deputy Prime Minister

Minister for Defence

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dpm.media@defence.gov.au

02 6277 7800

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5 February 2025

WEDNESDAY, 5 FEBRUARY 2025

SUBJECTS: Visit to Washington DC; Trump Administration; Antisemitism; Superannuation. 

KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: The Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles heads to Washington tomorrow amid the ongoing uncertainty about the foreign policy. The Middle East announcement today, quite extraordinary developments that he'll be heading into. Before the announcement out of the White House, I caught up with the Deputy Prime Minister. As I say, it was before the Israel-Gaza announcement by Donald Trump. But I asked him what he was hoping to achieve in meeting Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth for the first time over coming days.

RICHARD MARLES, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, the US Secretary of Defense has been the most important relationship I've had with a counterpart overseas, obviously, given the significance of the Alliance to our national security, and it will be in the future. So, really the aim is to get to know Secretary Hegseth, to begin that relationship, to establish that rapport, obviously to talk about the key equities within the defence relationship and AUKUS is central to that. But this is, in that sense, you know, the first time we've seen a change in Secretary of Defense whilst I've been in this role and this, I think, will be a very important meeting.

GILBERT: Very important, no doubt for the nation as well. Because you're going to be, obviously, if you win the next election, it's a key part of keeping this Alliance on an even keel. 

MARLES: 100%. I mean, the defence relationship is at the heart of the Alliance and the Alliance is obviously at the heart of our most important relationship, which is our relationship with the United States. So, it really does matter and it will follow on from what was a very productive relationship between Penny Wong and Marco Rubio in the foreign affairs space.

GILBERT: How was your first call with Secretary Hegseth?

MARLES: It was really good, is the answer to the question. I mean, it was warm, there was a sense of how significant Australia has been as an ally to the United States–

GILBERT: He got it?

MARLES: Oh, totally. And so I was very pleased to hear that. You know, I think from an Australian point of view, we always want to know that America has its eye on the Indo-Pacific and Secretary Hegseth was really strong on that in terms of where America's interests lay, where its ongoing leadership needed to be felt. And so, you know, I took that very positively, as I did the fact that he was keen to meet as quickly as possible and we will be meeting face to face within two weeks of him becoming Secretary.

GILBERT: Well, you'd be one of the first, wouldn't you? One of the first defence– to speak to him?

MARLES: I think so, but it's certainly very–

GILBERT: Will it help us avoid tariffs?

MARLES: Well, I think it's a separate question and I think when it comes to tariffs, I mean obviously we will advocate Australia's interests here. I mean we are a trading island nation. A growing proportion of our prosperity, of our national income is derived from trade and our interest lies in free trade. And that's the interest that we will advocate to this administration.

GILBERT: But 100 years of fighting wars alongside the US. We’re their fiercest, if not their fiercest, right up there, closest ally. We've got military bases–

MARLES: Sure. And I think we need to see, you know, the defence relationship on its own terms. And what you are describing is something that Secretary Hegseth absolutely understands. He himself has served in the United States defence forces. He was very quick to tell me that in his period of service he worked alongside Australian personnel and he knew at a grassroots level just how significant that bond is and how well our defence forces work together. It's organic. It is a deeply trusted relationship and he has felt it at the grassroots.

GILBERT: But it might not mean that, even though we're so close and the strongest of allies, it might not mean we avoid tariffs. That's the–

MARLES: So, this administration has made it clear that it's going to have a different policy in relation to tariffs and we are seeing that play out. We should expect that. That said, we've clearly got an argument to make in relation to our economic relationship with the United States and it's an argument that we are making, and namely that of the $100 billion of two-way trade that we do, there is a trade surplus in the favour of the United States and that's been the case for a very long time. And that's a surplus which is in their favour in the order of two-to-one. So, these are important points to make and we will continue to make them because it's very much in our interest to have a free trading environment.

GILBERT: Will you make that?

MARLES: We’re all– 

GILBERT: Because you're going to the Pentagon. 

MARLES: Sure.

GILBERT: But you'll still–

MARLES: We will make those arguments. Of course we will.

GILBERT: You mentioned that in passing, I guess.

MARLES: Indeed. But the critical reason I'm there is in respect of our defence relationship, which is very central to the overall relationship.

GILBERT: The DeepSeek ban on government devices, what are the concerns around that Chinese technology?

MARLES: Well, with any application, with any app, our security agencies will assess them to understand what doors are in effect being opened to government networks in respect of where data is based, how it's processed and the like. And in respect of this particular app, the advice is that it would represent an unacceptable risk to government networks to have this app on them and we take that advice. You know, we get that advice literally in respect of every app that we find on any government phone, on any government network. And it's important that that's done, because in this day and age you've got to be very vigilant about what doors you're opening, and how we manage our most protected information. And that's as simple as that.

GILBERT: It makes sense. And the government's sort of responding to that advice. You're coping, or the Prime Minister is coping, a bit of flak at the moment from the Opposition Leader over the caravan terror plot and not detailing what he knew and when. Should he be detailing when the advice was given to him, because he has spoken about other times when security advice has been afforded to him?

MARLES: Look, the management of information, in this instance originally by the NSW Police, we need to respect the way in which those police forces and other intelligence agencies, when it's their information, manage that. And there's good reasons why that information is at times kept out of the public domain. And when people are briefed and what they're briefed on, really, this does get down to the operational. And there are moments where it's important that that stays out of the public domain. So, the Prime Minister is absolutely entitled to, and right in not putting that out in the public domain. And the one person who really should understand this is the Leader of the Opposition. He's a former Home Affairs Minister. He's been responsible for the Australian Federal Police. He knows–

GILBERT: So, are you saying it's a case by case situation? So, on some occasions you can say, I received this information on that day for these reasons, but on other matters you need to keep the cards to your chest? 

MARLES: And of course that is the case. And that's reflected in the way in which police forces and agencies maintain their own information. There are times in which police forces do put information out into the public domain for good reason. There are times where they don't for good reason. And that needs to be respected, because these are operational matters and we need to let them manage those operations. What's important to understand is this: the Australian Federal Police have a task force which is focused on combating antisemitism, that's Operation Avalite. And that is reflected in task force which exists in a number of the state police around our country. That's important to know. It's important to know that our police forces are being properly resourced in respect of those task forces, and they are. And it's important to understand that our police forces are working very closely together, coordinating in respect of what they do, and they are. And what underlay, you know, the preparation of that caravan is obviously bigotry and prejudice and malevolent intent, and that has no place in our country and we must continue condemn it. We also should recognise that this was a plot that was foiled and our police forces are doing their job and we need to let them do their job. And this should not be a matter which is politicised. And the fact that the Leader of the Opposition is walking down this path is deeply disappointing.

GILBERT: A couple of quick ones before you go. On the plans to tax super funds over $3 million, some fund managers are saying ‘what about politicians, those with defined benefits’? Not you, but Prime Minister Albanese and others who've been here a long time. If you've got a benefit that's over $3 million, unrealised gains, will they be taxed like other people will be?

MARLES: Obviously, I'm not going to go into individuals but, you know, whatever reforms we put through will apply to everyone. The law that applies to one person out there in respect of defined benefit schemes will apply across the board, and that includes politicians.

GILBERT: So, including– so funds on defined benefits will also be under this?

MARLES: Well, if they meet the criteria that we're talking about in terms of reforms – 

GILBERT: Over $3 mill?

MARLES: Yeah. Then what applies to one is going to apply to all. 

ENDS

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