Television Interview, ABC News Breakfast

SUBJECT/S: Support for Ukraine; Birth rate; Cost of living

HOST, STEPHANIE FERRIER: Well, let's get more on that major aid being promised for Ukraine. Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles joins us now from Geelong. Good morning. Deputy Prime Minister.

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, RICHARD MARLES: Good morning, Steph. How are you?

FERRIER: Good, thank you. Well, first of all, just how soon will we see these tanks arrive on the battlefield in Ukraine?

MARLES: Well, look, we wouldn't normally comment on the timing of the equipment getting into Ukraine for operational reasons, really, but this is a very significant contribution. It's $245 million worth of defence material, 49 Abrams tanks. This is going to significantly boost the mobile fire capability of the Ukrainian armed forces. And it brings to a total $1.5 billion of military support that Australia has provided to Ukraine since the outbreak of this conflict. You know, we know that this is going to be a conflict which goes for a long time. We are in there for the long haul. This will not be the last package that we provide to Ukraine, as we have consistently said. And we will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes for Ukraine to resolve this conflict on its own terms.

FERRIER: Isn't this a bit of a backflip? You said in February in Jakarta that it wasn't on the agenda and in fact, the Ukrainian ambassador has been pleading for this sort of support for months.

MARLES: No, we talk with the Ukrainian Government consistently around how best we can support them. They, for example, were seeking integrated air and missile defence. And that has been a feature of the packages that we've announced this year. You know, I announced a package of $250 million worth of support in July when I was at NATO, $100 million when I was in Ukraine earlier in the year. We look at the material that we have; its effectiveness, how the shape that it's in, to be frank, whether it would be able to make a difference, whether it can be sustained and maintained so that it can be kept in the fight. And the Abrams tanks fit all of those criteria. And we're really pleased that we're in a position to be able to give them to Ukraine.

FERRIER: There are very real and valid concerns that the US presidential candidate, Donald Trump, could reduce any help to Ukraine and the support that he'll give, if any, if he is re-elected. Are you concerned that if that does happen, that these tanks could eventually fall into Russia's hands?

MARLES: Well, look, I think the point to make here is that there is a lot at stake, obviously, for Ukraine, but for the world. I mean, Ukraine is fighting for its own country, but in so many ways, Ukraine is really on the front line of fighting for the global rules based order, which stands in the interests of, certainly, Australia, but countries around the world, I mean, we cannot allow to stand the idea that a large country can invade a smaller neighbour, not by reference to international law, but by reference to power and might. And so we stand with the international community in terms of supporting Ukraine and we will continue to do that. And obviously, what plays out in America is a matter for the American people, but it really matters that the global community continue to support Ukraine in its fight.

FERRIER: Absolutely. Look, let's just turn to issues closer to home. And we've seen those ABS figures confirming a declining birth rate. You've got a real problem there, haven't you?

MARLES: Well, I mean, the birth rate moves from time to time.

FERRIER: The birth rate is the lowest it's been for a long time.

MARLES: Australia's home population, this is the lowest it has been for a very long time, particularly in Sydney, in areas like that. And it is why, you know, we are focused on the sorts of costs of living, pressures which impact families, so that we can do what we can to make it more affordable for people to raise a family. And if you look, for example, at what we're doing with childcare, which has actually been a signature policy of the Prime Minister, we are making childcare much more affordable for so many Australians. That does make a difference in terms of people's ability to raise a family. Now, we know people are doing it tough. And not for a moment are we saying, the job is done here. We will continue to work on this. Perhaps the most significant thing, actually we can do is, is maintain a war against inflation, which we've been doing by delivering two surpluses in the two years in which we've been in government, something that the coalition was unable to do throughout their entire time in government, despite promising they'd do it each and every year. I mean, we will focus on cost of living pressures which impact families and understanding that, obviously, that we want people to be able to meet their dreams and aspirations in terms of having a family.

FERRIER: Now, we've seen demographers saying that housing affordability is a real issue in terms of whether or not people are considering or disregarding the idea of having a child. Do you think that this ABS data confirms that, that housing affordability is a real factor that you obviously have to do something about?

MARLES: I think, you know, we're seeing cost of living pressures across the economy and we get that and we get that Australians are doing it tough and certainly housing affordability is front and centre in that because it's the most significant cost that people, by and large, have in their household budgets. It's why we've been deeply focused on it. I mean, the Housing Australia Future Fund, which we put through last year, is about building thousands more low cost social housing. We would have liked to have put in place the help to buy scheme, but that was opposed and voted down by both the coalition and the Greens. But we've done more in terms of Commonwealth rent assistance. We have a whole package in relation to housing which we will continue to prosecute and we see it as very central to our whole effort in relation to costs.

FERRIER: Not at this stage, as your other Ministers have said, involving negative gearing, though, but just moving on to the last issue which I wanted to raise with you, which was when we saw the Canberra Liberals leader Elizabeth Lee, at the end of a press conference, she obviously had got quite frustrated with a journalist and flipped the bird. You can see her there just making her emotions felt. She did say, in fairness to her, that it was a moment of frustration and I wanted to find out if you've ever been tempted to be in a similar situation in a press conference.

MARLES: I've not been tempted to flip the bird. I've certainly had my share of frustrations in press conferences. It's, look, you know, this is a difficult job. It's obviously important that we seek to manage our emotions in that moment. But, yes, it was a pretty extraordinary contribution to the political discourse yesterday.

FERRIER: Yes, but you always keep a lid on it.

MARLES: I try to keep a lid on it. Others can be the judge as to whether I succeed.

FERRIER: Richard Marles, Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister, thank you very much for your time this morning.

MARLES: Pleasure, Steph.