Doorstop interview, Parliament House

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER RICHARD MARLES: Well, today we have announced in the House of Representatives that the Government has concluded its formal response to the Brereton Report. I want to start by thanking Major General Paul Brereton and his team for what has been a thorough, extensive, remarkable inquiry, which has resulted in an utterly essential report for our nation, and is the basis upon which the Government has been able to engage in fundamental reforms. I want to thank those working on the Afghanistan Inquiry Reform Program within Defence who have been charged with the responsibility of carrying out the recommendations of the report, and I want to thank the Independent Oversight Panel who has provided guidance to me and my predecessors during the period in which this program has been implemented. Most particularly, I really want to acknowledge those who have given evidence to Major General Brereton. Bravery comes in a range of forms, but those who have provided evidence have engaged in a moral courage of the highest decimal. They have in their act of courage in speaking the truth, helped make our country better and they have made a difference. In closing out the Brereton Report, I really want to emphasise that this is a moment in which our country has been able to hold ourselves accountable for our actions. From here as the Office of the Special Investigator does its work, any prosecution of war crimes will happen inside Australia by an Australian court. And in the history of human conflict, that level of accountability is unusual. Major General Brereton has led a process of global significance and in doing this he has allowed us to take accountability for the past, but to do so in a way which enables the whole country to have full confidence in the Australian Defence Force and for us all to cherish the sacred service of those who have worn our nation's uniform in the past and will wear it in the future. 

JOURNALIST: Deputy Prime Minister, Jacqui Lambie has already responded. She says it's deeply insensitive to do this in the same week as the Royal Commission, and she doesn't think there are enough mental health beds to deal with the fallout of making this decision and how it will be treated in the Defence community. What do you say to her?

MARLES: We acknowledge that the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide was a really significant report. It's a report which is deeply thoughtful. The recommendations will make a huge difference. But we do understand the impact on those who have provided evidence to that. It really is a separate issue to what has occurred in terms of the inquiry that was undertaken by Major General Brereton, and we do acknowledge that for a number of those people who have been involved, specifically in the periods of time that the Brereton Report covers, there will be issues there as well, and we, again, are providing all the appropriate supports. But it matters that both of these are done. Like, it really does matter that both of these are done and we're committed to following them through.

JOURNALIST: Minister, we’re told that there's a difference between the number of people who might have been advised to you by the CDF that should be stripped of metals, and the number who actually were – a difference of maybe four to five individuals. What were the circumstances or arguments that you accepted to allow these people to keep their medals?

MARLES: Well, look, on the question of command accountability, I'm not going to go into numbers other than to say it's a small number of people that we are talking about. And because of that, to go into the specifics runs the risk of walking down a path of identifying those. 

JOURNALIST: Generally speaking?

MARLES: And, sure, and there are privacy issues in relation to this. And ultimately, at the end of the day, the decisions that I make are really, and the letters that I've written, are a matter between me and those people. But in answer to the question as to what's guided me in general terms in the making of the decisions that I've made, the answer to that is the Brereton Report. I mean, Major General Brereton and his team undertook hundreds of interviews involving thousands of pages of testimony. It is a thoughtful, detailed, thorough report. It is Major General Brereton and his team who did these interviews, not any of us. And it's on the basis of those interviews that he concluded the judgments that he did. And so I have followed those to the letter in terms of the decisions that I have made, and that is the basis on the decisions that I've made and the letters that I've subsequently written.

JOURNALIST: Quoting Brereton, he said that commanders might not have known of the commission of war crimes did not fully absolve them, and that they were accountable for what happens on their watch. So I again ask you, why did some people keep their medals, and some didn't?

MARLES: Well, you've quoted one line from a very extensive report, and you really need to look at all of what Major General Brereton has said. It doesn't do justice to the report to simply take one line out of context. Major General Brereton is detailed and thorough in terms of how he sees accountability across the entire chain of command. He makes the comment that you quoted in respect of some. But I really encourage those who are interested in this to read what's out there in the public domain in full. But the point I make is simply this. I have done that and I've made sure that in the decisions I have made, I have followed Major General Brereton's report to the letter. 

JOURNALIST: Do you want them to hand the medals back if you’ve written a letter to them?

MARLES: Well, I mean, the precise mechanics of this will be managed by Government House in terms of the physical medals. I doubt that's an issue. I mean, what matters here is that the decision has been made. And I think really the point I'm seeking to make in relation to command accountability is that this really was the final step in terms of government action around the recommendations that have been made by the Brereton Report, and that step has now been concluded. 

JOURNALIST: Minister, how does stripping medals and setting up a compensation fund that will pay out to alleged victims, not infer guilt?

MARLES: Again, I encourage people to read the Brereton Report. I mean, the answer to your question really, really lies in that. And there are a couple of dimensions to what you've said, because really, medals and compensation schemes are two very different things. In relation to command accountability, this is not an allegation of wrongdoing on behalf of those who receive medals. Medals are awarded for conspicuous conduct. No one, no one, and Major General Brereton makes this really clear in his report, no one is asserting that those who are being spoken of in relation to command accountability are suggesting they knew what happened, were aware of it, or didn't act. That's not the issue. But the issue is that when you command a unit, you will receive often the benefits and the accolades of what that unit does, irrespective of whether you've personally been right there at the front line and commensurately you accept the responsibility of that unit in terms of what failings occur. And the judgement that Major General Brereton goes through is, had we known what had occurred, would the medals have been granted? Now, again, I give you an excerpt there, but I encourage you to read it because it's detailed and it is thorough. And the fundamental point here is I have followed that to the letter. In terms of compensation, allegations have been made. And at this point, in terms of Major General Brereton's report, the language is that there is credible evidence in respect of those allegations. And it is off the back of that, that the government and successive governments have acted and acted upon one of the recommendations, which was in respect of compensation, and we are fulfilling that recommendation. 

JOURNALIST: Veterans groups are outraged that former Defence Chief Angus Campbell hasn’t been caught up in this. Can you explain why he hasn't had his medals removed?

MARLES: Again, I refer you to Major General Brereton's report. He is the one who did the hundreds of interviews. He is the one, more than any of those who are out there commenting, who understands best exactly what happened, the proximity of various commanders to what happened. And on the basis of that, he has made very clear judgments about what should and should not happen. And I have followed those to the letter. Now, in respect of commanding officers of Joint Task Force 633, he is crystal clear on that issue. And again, I have followed Brereton's report to the letter because he is the one, none of us, and not veterans groups, he is the one who did the hundreds – and his team – the hundreds of interviews here, has heard the thousands of pages of testimony and has reached a conclusion as a result. And I have no reason to doubt those conclusions.

JOURNALIST: But the buck stops with him – putting the Brereton Report aside, the buck stops with Angus Campbell. Why does he keep his DSC?

MARLES: Well, again, we've got to be really clear and forensic and careful. Details matter. The argument is in respect of General Campbell's service at the time as a commanding officer of Joint Task Force 633. And in respect of that, Major General Brereton is utterly and completely clear. 

JOURNALIST: Can we go to a broader question about Afghanistan? Obviously, we have had the report, the veterans report today and, you know, diggers who have been with, you know, PTSD from that. The war crimes inquiry, which were the actions of a few that tainted the ADF. We're seeing Afghanistan, the Taliban's hold there becoming further and further entrenched, and now women with new morality laws silencing women in public. A lot of people will probably ask, was Afghanistan worth it? What's the broader legacy of that war?

MARLES: That's a huge question and forgive me for not answering the full breadth of it. There's probably not the time in order to do that, but I want to answer a dimension of it. I think the legacy is this. 26,000 Australians fought in that war. It's a large number. It's the longest conflict in which Australians have participated. And what we learn throughout our history is that judgements are made by governments of the day about engaging in conflicts. But those judgements are not questioned by those who wear our uniform. In fact, part of the service that is offered by those who wear our uniform, part of the remarkable thing they do in putting that uniform on each and every day, is to, without question, go out and provide service to our nation in a way where they put their lives on the line. 

And indeed, we saw a number of Australians lose their lives in exactly that fashion. I think the legacy that I would want to acknowledge on this day is that service, the sacredness of that service, and that in holding to account all the actions that we have through the Brereton Report, we give the country an opportunity to understand that it was just a few who were engaged in these acts, that the vast bulk of those 26,000 who served in Afghanistan did so with professionalism, with honour, with bravery and with integrity. And for them, we thank them for their service, as we do those who have worn our uniform in the past and will wear it in the future. Thank you.