Television Interview, ABC Afternoon Briefing

SUBJECTS: Final report of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide

HOST, GREG JENNETT: As a starting position, do you, as former CDF Angus Campbell did, extend an apology for deficiencies and failures for Defence and veteran members?

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER RICHARD MARLES: We do, and I do. Defence has not been where it should have been. There have been issues within the ADF, within Defence, over many, many years, and Defence needs to be the best organisation that it can be, because that's what we owe to those who make the decision to wear our nation's uniform. It's why we called for this Royal Commission when we were in opposition. It's why we've supported in government, it's why we implemented the recommendations that form part of the interim report of the Royal Commission. We completely acknowledge there have been deficiencies. They need to be fixed.

JENNETT: All right. We don't have all of the recommendations, but we certainly have enough to get on with to explore your initial disposition, I suppose, Richard Marles. A new agency to manage the care of veterans. DVA cannot, in its current form, deliver optimal wellbeing and address risks of suicide, the Royal Commission has found. So, this would be run by veterans, for veterans. Are you attracted to that?

MARLES: Well, it's certainly been a focus of the Royal Commission. I'm not going to go into each and every recommendation, as you probably would imagine, given that the report has literally just been handed down. But I want to make a couple of points more generally. We very much support the thrust of the Royal Commission. We believe that the work that it's done is profoundly important and that the report itself is profoundly important. Without knowing, or still in the process, I should say, of going through the specifics of the recommendations, we do understand the direction in which the Royal Commission has gone and we will support the thrust of the recommendations that are made. We want to take the time, obviously, to go through each of them. But in taking that time, I also want to make this point, we will respond to this shortly and in a very timely manner. We understand how important it is that there is clarity provided in terms of the government's response and we will make that happen.

JENNETT: I'll come back to perhaps pinning you down on those timings, but by design, what they're saying here is there is a gap between DVA over there, Defence over here and someone who really looks out for the interests of particularly members transitioning from one into the other. Do you recognise that?

MARLES: I think transition is a really important issue and I think there are gaps around the question of transition. So, I do recognise that, and this has been a focus of the Royal Commission's efforts. When I appeared in front of the Royal Commission myself, which was an unusual step for a sitting Minister to appear before a Royal Commission. This was very much a focus of the Royal Commission at that point. And I made clear in my testimony then that I understood the significance of transition as an issue. We need to get it right. I think the other point that was certainly being made by the Royal Commission throughout its hearings is that there's been a lot of work by a lot of different reports and investigations and inquiries in the past. They want this one to make a difference. And so in terms of having a standing body, they see that as being an important part of that. Again, without responding directly to the recommendation, we absolutely are committed to making sure that this Royal Commission makes a difference and that its recommendations last.

JENNETT: Thanks for pointing that out. Because inertia, as you identify, has been a big issue in the past, there’s going to be a lot of change demanded of Defence itself, which principally you are in charge of as Minister. By that I mean shedding cultures of secrecy, more readily reporting on annual data of all forms of sexual violence, it is recommended, including age, rank and gender of victim and perpetrator. Publicly reporting on culture, health and wellbeing. Do you see a need for that?

MARLES: Well, again, without going into the specific recommendations, I think transparency is fundamentally important. I mean, transparency matters in terms of changing culture, and culture needs to be changed. I would say I think there has been significant changes in culture over the decades. It would be wrong to not observe that the Defence Force in 2024 looks very different to the Defence Force in 1984. But the journey's far from complete and there does need to be a continual change to culture and transparency is a critical element of that.

JENNETT: Now, one alarming finding is that the inspector general of the ADF should, quote, look at the weaponisation of the military justice system, including by commanders who are found to misuse and abuse military justice processes. It's asking for more accountability. Really, what it's calling for is discipline and punishment, isn't it? Is that appropriate?

MARLES: Well, again, we'll go through the report in detail around that recommendation. The military justice system is important. It does stand complementary to, but in addition to, the criminal justice system, which exists in the civil world. And the most significant component to that is about ensuring that command is maintained. I mean, the Defence Force is a command-based organisation.

JENNETT: But not abused by command-

MARLES: Sure- absolutely. And so in that sense, making sure that the military justice system is doing what it's meant to do, but that it's not, as you say, being abused and going forward- going further than that, I mean, is something that is profoundly important. So, we'll have a very good look at this part of the report as well. I think it is right that all aspects of what is specific and particular about the defence force and a military justice system is definitely one of those elements, is examined.

JENNETT: But there's also a proposal for a somewhat significant change at the top, inasmuch as the Inspector General, it is recommended, should not have served in the military. So, that's taking the old internal mechanism and putting an outsider into it. Is that healthy?

MARLES: Look, again, I think we want to take the time to go through something as specific as that and to just be mindful of what recommendations we ultimately support and what we pursue. So, we will take that time. But the broader point, which is that the military justice system has to be focused on its role and not be taken further, not be abused, is obviously a point well observed and well made.

JENNETT: Okay, so, again, I come back to recognising the fact that this is only freshly released and even I haven't had an opportunity to get across it. It's voluminous, as they say. Shortly, soon and timely, I think, are words you've used about your response in the parliament. Does that indicate that some major recommendations could be legislated in the remaining life of this parliament?

MARLES: I won't go into a commitment in respect of that. What we will say is that we will respond to this and make clear what the intent of the government is through a formal response to the report. As you say, in a timely, in a short manner- we understand the importance of that. We understand how long people have been waiting for this report. We come to this with a sense of the direction of the Royal Commission, which is why I've been very comfortable in saying we support the thrust of this, because we do know- we have known the direction of the Royal Commission, but we have not actually seen each of the 122 recommendations until today. That's literally the first time that the government was made aware of them. And as I said when I appeared in front of the Royal Commission, we're obviously going to take the time to make sure that we respond to them properly. That's what people would expect us to do. But we get that the time is of the essence.

JENNETT: And just finally, Commissioner Kaldas has expressed publicly a desire that this be approached in a bipartisan fashion, presumably, although he didn't spell it out completely, so that it can be seen through to its conclusion. Do you commit to that?

MARLES: Well, certainly- I can't commit to what the Opposition will do, but I do think that there is a spirit of bipartisanship in relation to this. I mean, I would say that this was- I mean, we called for it in Opposition, it was implemented by the Morrison Government in 2021 and we've been supporting it as we've come to government. So, it in fact has enjoyed the support to date of both sides of the parliament. I mean, look, I agree with Commissioner Kaldas. I think this is so important. It really, I hope, is something that is above the day-to-day fray of politics and can enjoy bipartisan support going forward.

JENNETT: Rest assured, we'll be putting some of those questions, many of them, in fact, to Barnaby Joyce on this program today. Richard Marles we’ll wrap it up there. Thanking you once again for an initial readout on this very weighty report.

MARLES: Thanks, Greg.

ENDS