Television interview, Sky News

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
SKY NEWS - NEWSDAY
THURSDAY, 29 AUGUST 2024

SUBJECT/S: Australian-Indonesia Defence Cooperation signing; Ukraine; Migration; ASIO; Pacific Forum; Ministerial office

HOST, KIERAN GILBERT: Lets go live now to Yogyakarta, joining me is the Deputy Prime Minister, Richard Marles. Thanks for your time. You've formalised this Defence Cooperation Agreement. It's now at a treaty level. Is this all about China? Is this why Indonesia is signing up to this? Because traditionally they've had a non aligned approach to foreign policy. Is this a shift in their worldview?

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, RICHARD MARLES: No. So, firstly, Kieran, we'll be signing this later today here at the Yogyakarta, at the Indonesian Military academy, in what will be a really significant moment between our two countries, fundamentally about Australia and Indonesia. It's about the fact that, as two neighbours who've had a long journey, when you think about it, over the last several decades, coming to a moment in time where we see that our security lies in each other, and that's absolutely true. I mean, if any sort of independent observer looking at the map would understand that we do have a shared destiny, inevitably. And what we need to be doing as two countries is to make sure that that is a positive shared destiny where we are drawing our security from each other. And this agreement will make Australians safer, it will make Indonesians safer. I don't think it's a shift in Indonesia's worldview. This is not an alliance. And Indonesia has a very strong tradition of non alignment. And to be honest, we not only recognise that, but like the fact that we have Indonesia there, which has very strong principles of non alignment. But what this does do is make it much, much more easy for us to work together in a military sense. And you're going to see that even this year, in terms of the scale of exercises that we will now be doing with each other and to build that interoperability, to build that engagement between our defence forces, to see that our security lies in our northern neighbour, and for Indonesia to see that their security lies in their southern neighbour, that's a huge step forward for both countries.

GILBERT: Do they have the same view towards China that we do? Is it a similar sort of hedging, I guess, in terms of our security arrangements?

MARLES: Well, I wouldn't want to speak for Indonesia in terms of their views on China. I mean, they, as I say, they have a proud tradition of non-alignment. That is the history of Indonesia, and it's very much the present as well, and they will speak to that. So, this doesn't alter any of that. They seek to have a relationship with China and as we do, I mean, in the sense that China is a very large trading partner for Indonesia, as it is for us. And all of us, I think, are trying to work out how we can have a more functional, more stable, more cooperative relationship with China. But we also acknowledge that from an Australian perspective, there are significant security anxieties that lie in China's behaviour. And that does- we need to be making sure that in a less certain world, we are more capable.

GILBERT: On the embassy in Kyiv, the Leader of the Senate, the Leader of the Liberal Party in the Senate, Simon Birmingham, the Shadow Foreign Minister, is there. He says they'll reopen that embassy. Why haven't we?

MARLES: Well, we do, as I'm sure you know, have an ambassador to Ukraine who's currently based in Warsaw, but who does visit Ukraine. Indeed, when I was in Ukraine myself in April, our ambassador came with me as part of that visit. I think we all want to see the embassy reopen. It's a matter of doing so when it's safe and when we're able to do this in the way that we would want to in terms of all the safety obligations we have. And that's something that's being currently worked through. But we do have a deep engagement on a day to day basis with Ukraine with an ambassador who is in the region, and I saw that firsthand when I was visiting Ukraine earlier this year.

GILBERT: But other countries have done it. We should, too, shouldn't we, as a show of support?

MARLES: Well, look, as I say, I mean, we all want this to happen. It's just a matter of making sure that this can be done in a manner which is safe and that is being worked through. But I think what fundamentally is important here is that we are providing support to Ukraine in their conflict with Russia, and that is what we're doing. And what Ukraine want to see is that we are there standing with them in a practical and material way. When I was in Washington a month or so ago, we announced what to date has been our biggest iteration in terms of support for Ukraine- a $250 million package and that's in addition to the $100 million that I announced back in April when I was in Lviv in Ukraine. So, we are constantly talking with Ukraine, working out how we can provide support, making it clear that we will be there for as long as it takes for Ukraine to resolve this conflict on their terms. And that's actually the fundamental issue here, and that's the support they want to see.

GILBERT: On a few other matters. You would have heard me talking to Jason Clare there about the issue of those that have arrived here from Gaza. Yesterday, the former national security adviser to liberal Prime Minister Justin Bassi, a former adviser to the Attorney-General as well, he said that no one with any affiliation, support or sympathy to Hamas should be allowed to Australia. Do you agree with that sentiment? And if you do, with some of those peripheral cheques, are you worried about some of those that might have been allowed on tourist visas to Australia?

MARLES: Well, Kieran, I'm mindful that I'm out of the country and so I'm not up to speed with the specific comments that have been made. So, I won't specifically reply to the question in relation to what Justin Bassi has said, but I did, as I was getting ready for this hear the comments that Jason made, and I'm very much agree with them. The bottom line here is not only are the cheques that are being put in place by other countries, such as Israel and Egypt, and I think the point that Jason made there was well made, but we have security agencies which are the same security agencies which were operating when the coalition were in government. ASIO is the principal organisation responsible for this. They are in play here and they are making sure that the relevant security assessments are occurring. And I think actually, deep down the Coalition understand this as well, even though they are, you know, doing what they're doing from a political point of view. But Australians should have confidence that we have some of the best security agencies in the world. ASIO is very much one of them. It is engaging in cheques here. And the answer to your question is I feel comfortable with the level of security that's in place.

GILBERT: Completely comfortable with- so, they're not just peripheral checks, just to clarify?

MARLES: What ASIO does is run well. ASIO manages the security assessments of anyone who enters this country, no matter which part of the world they come from. And you would not describe any of that activity as peripheral. It is deep. And they have made sure that those checks and measures are applying in relation to people who are coming from the occupied Palestinian territories. And I am comfortable with the level of checks which are going on there. They are, as Jason Clare pointed out earlier, in addition to the checks that have been undertaken by other countries like Israel and like Egypt, a couple of.

GILBERT: Quick ones as well, the Pacific policing initiative. Kurt Campbell quoted in that tape of the Prime Minister chatting at Tonga, saying that the US pulled out of that to allow us to do it, to get in there. Why would we not want the US to oversee that? Is that, is that what he's talking about in those comments?

MARLES: Well, again, I'm in another part of the world, so I'm not going to respond to that directly because I'm not up to speed with everything that Kurt Campbell has said but again, in the general, can I make this point; w2hat's been announced in Tonga is a $400 million commitment from Australia in relation to policing throughout the Pacific. This is a really significant commitment to the region. I know firsthand that as I've gone around the Pacific, there are many countries where law and order is the number one issue and where they really do need and want support from us and where we can make a real difference by providing that support. And this initiative is going directly to that. So, I think a lot's been made of kind of, you know, a hot mic. But at the end of the day, this is a really significant contribution that we are making and one that the Pacific want more generally in relation to the US. From my time, when I was operating as the Parliamentary Secretary for Pacific Island Affairs, right back in 2010 through 13, we were doing everything we could to have America play a bigger role, and they are. You look at America today versus where they were a decade ago, and their commitment to the Pacific is really excellent across a whole range of areas. I mean, they signed a Defence Cooperation Agreement with Papua New Guinea, for example. If you can look at what the US Coast Guard does in terms of having ship riders on board its ships as they traverse various exclusive economic zones in the Pacific, the US is doing more and more, and that is a really good thing.

GILBERT: You've got to go. Quickly- the office in Geelong reports in the ABC suggesting you had another one established 200 metres or 250 metres from the other. What's going on there? Is that due to the need for more space? What's the reason for that?

MARLES: Well, look, I mean, all of this is happening in accordance with the rules and the procedures which apply to Ministerial offices. I maintain a Ministerial office in Geelong and as a member of the ministry who comes from regional Australia, I think it's completely appropriate, actually important, that you are able to have Ministerial representatives operating from regional Australia, and I'm hardly the first to do this. Members of the Coalition who are Ministers from regional Australia maintain their Ministerial offices in different parts of the country. You know, it is the case that the Australian stories is not just our capital cities, it is regional Australia as well. Now, so I operate a Ministerial office from Geelong and I obviously have my electorate office from Geelong and they do different functions.

GILBERT: Thank you. I think your staff might be annoyed. We've gone a bit over time, but thanks so much. I know you got a busy schedule. Appreciate it.

MARLES: Thanks, Kieran.

ENDS