Television Interview, ABC News Breakfast

SUBJECTS: AUKUS cooperation agreement; Paul Keating’s comments, Bruce Lehrmann raid

HOST MICHAEL ROWLAND: Overnight, Australia, the UK and the US struck a revamped agreement allowing for the transfer of US and UK nuclear naval material to Australia. Critics have been quick to seize on it, warning the deal opens up a so called radioactive waste loophole. The Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Richard Marles joins us now from Vancouver. Richard Marles, very good morning to you. So, what's happening with this nuclear waste deal concerning Australia? Why are we getting it?

DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER RICHARD MARLES: Well, firstly, that's not what's happening at all. So that's a completely incorrect characterisation of what we've agreed. There is no prospect of any nuclear waste coming to Australia from the US or the UK. We will be handling our own nuclear waste, which is what we announced in March of last year. What we signed earlier this week was the legal underpinning, a treaty level agreement, which underpins the AUKUS arrangements that we announced in March of last year. What that will see is the three Virginia class submarines be provided by the United States to Australia, which obviously will include within them the nuclear reactor. We'll see the nuclear reactor that are built by Rolls Royce come to Australia to form part of the submarines that we build in Australia. It reaffirms that we will, in this process, meet our international obligations in terms of non-proliferation and also in respect of the Rarotonga treaty. So this is the legal foundational underpinning of the agreement that we reached in March of last year. And in that sense it's a very significant step forward on the AUKUS journey.

ROWLAND: In explaining the deal to the US Congress, US President Joe Biden referred to as part of this deal, the revamped deal, additional political commitments from Australia. What are those commitments?

MARLES: Well, we've made clear our commitments to the United States in relation to this and supporting their defence industrial base. That is really important to up the production of Virginia class submarines in the United States so that there can be produced, the one that we ultimately procure, but also improving the rate of sustainment of Virginias in the United States so that there is an ability to space, if you like, for America to be able to provide two in-service Virginias to Australia, and they will be the first of the Virginias that we receive. What this does is provide the legal underpinning of the agreement that we reached in March of last year. So, the substance of this agreement has been public for more than a year. But this is a critical step in this journey because this is the legal, the foundational underpinning at a treaty level of what we agreed last year.

ROWLAND: The reason I ask, the President did use the word ‘additional’ political commitments. We know all of those, as you say. Are there any other political commitments Australia has made as part of this revamp deal?

MARLES: As I said, what this does is provide the underpinning of what we've already agreed.

ROWLAND: But no additional political commitments?

MARLES: The Agreement is as we've done it, and that is absolutely clear. So, there's no other things that people will seek to spread misinformation about in terms of what this may or may not be about. What this is, is the legal underpinning of what we have already agreed. And in terms of that nuclear waste issue that you raised at the start that is an utter furphy. That is not what is going on here. We are responsible for our nuclear waste and we made that clear in March of last year. And there's a process underway in respect of that. And to remind you that the first moment in which we will need to be disposing of our own nuclear reactors will be in the 2050s. So, we have time to get that right. But that's the only nuclear waste that we will be disposing of and other nuclear waste that we ourselves generate which will be the low level kind.

ROWLAND: Yeah, good to clarify, giving the opportunity to do that, because there have been claims that we're getting additional nuclear waste made by the Greens and others. So, thank you for that. Paul Keating, as you would know, is not happy with this deal. He says Australia is selling out its defence to the US. Here is Paul Keating on 7.30 last night.

PAUL KEATING: I mean, Australia is quite capable of defending itself. We don't need to be basically a pair of shoes hanging out the American backside.

ROWLAND: Richard Marles, over to you.

MARLES: Well, we are building our capability. We're building it in cooperation with the United States, which is in fact what we've been doing for decades now, what we were doing when Paul Keating himself was Prime Minister. There's actually quite a lot of work that we need to do to make sure that we do have the capability to defend ourselves. But the process that we are going through here in acquiring this capability in a technology sharing arrangement, and that's all that AUKUS is, is a technology sharing arrangement. It's not a defence alliance. But being able to acquire this technology greatly enhances Australia's own sovereign capability. It means that we can operate more on our own. That's actually what we're doing here. And it gives us a much greater ability to defend ourselves in the context of any potential coercion from any potential adversary in the future. And that's the fundamental strategic case that we need to do.

ROWLAND: The point is Paul Keating's unhappy. He claims Australia, in doing this, is becoming America's 51st state. What do you say to that?

MARLES: Well, again, I hear what Paul Keating has said. I mean, it's a line, but it's nothing more than that. And it's not a fair characterisation of what we're doing. I mean, what we are seeking to do is to ensure that we are contributing to the collective security of the region in which we live. That's how we best achieve our own security. And as I say, what we are seeking to do is to increase our own defence capability so that we are in a position to resist coercion from any future adversary. Now that all goes to Australia's national interest, that is entirely focused on Australia's strategic policy, on our defence policy. We do do work with America in terms of America force posture in Australia. And to be clear, there has been American engagement on the Australian continent for decades, including during the time that Paul Keating was the Prime Minister of Australia. But the engagement of America in Australia is actually something that, as I travel through our region, amongst our neighbours, is something that is welcomed in terms of its contribution to our regional security, but also the opportunity that it represents for countries in our region, and our neighbours, to engage in joint exercises to improve their skills. And we see that in the way in which we have a growing collaboration with our neighbours in the exercises that we do. All of this is about contributing to our, the collective security of the region in which we live. And that's what we are trying to achieve.

ROWLAND: Paul Keating is a Labour icon. He's a hero to many of your ranks. Richard Marles, as you know. What do you make of his increasingly robust critiques of the AUKUS deal?

MARLES: None of this is news in the sense that Mr Keating made his views known very clearly about this arrangement in March of last year. And to be fair, he's been consistent in his approach ever since. And so that's all we've seen last night. Now, I don't agree with it, but I absolutely acknowledge that as a former Prime Minister, as a great Labour Prime Minister, Paul Keating has a right to express his views in the public discourse, and that's what he's doing. You won't hear any criticism from me of him. That said, obviously the views that he's expressed, I happen to disagree with. And the policy that the Government is pursuing is fundamentally about building Australian capability in Australia's national interest to defend Australian security and that's what is our obligation as a Government and what we will continue to do.

ROWLAND: I want to finish, while we're talking about AUKUS, Richard Marles, referring to a breaking story this morning on News.com.au. It has the national anti-corruption watchdog raiding Bruce Lehrmann at an undisclosed location as part of an investigation into potential document leaks relating to the AUKUS deal. What can you tell us about that?

MARLES: Look, that's news to me, to be honest, Michael, so I'm unaware of what's happened there. But given that you've just described it as a police operation, I wouldn't be commenting anyway.

ROWLAND: Ok. Worth asking. Richard Marles, appreciate your time, as always. Thank you.

MARLES: Thanks, Michael.

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