Interview with Al Jazeera English

JOURNALIST:

Thank you so much for joining us. We're here at the Shangri-La Dialogue, your first international trip as Defence Minister. What are your priorities? What has been achieved so far while you've been here?

RICHARD MARLES:

Well, it's great to be here, and it's great to be talking with so many Defence Ministers around the world, but particularly Defence Ministers within our region. So my first priority is to meet people and get to know them, understand their issues. But the messages that we're bringing to this dialogue is how important the global rules-based order is, how important it is that we have settled rules, that the way in which countries relate to each other is determined by the rule of law and not by the rule of power. And that's particularly the case when you think about something like the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, which provides free navigation on our high seas, on bodies of water like the South China Sea, where there's a lot of trade that occurs, where most of Australia's trade traverses, and it's really important that those rules apply, and that's the message that we seek to bring here during this conference.

JOURNALIST:

You delivered a speech yesterday that had some very interesting points. You mentioned that Chinese military build-up, it's important that that is a transparent process. Knowing that Beijing is often quite opaque about many things, not just defence, do you think that's a likely possibility?

RICHARD MARLES:

Well, the point we're trying to make is that insecurity, the feeling of insecurity by nations is what gives rise to an arms race. And it's really important that there is transparency associated with countries which seek to modernise their military, and we totally understand the right of countries to do that. We're doing that ourselves. But it's important that there is transparency around that. It's important that there is reassuring statecraft that goes with that, so that those around you can feel a sense of confidence about what you're doing and the behaviour you're engaging in. And really, that was our call yesterday, because we are seeing a very significant build-up by China. It's the biggest military build-up that we've seen in the world since the end of the Second World War. And it's really important that occur in a transparent way so that insecurity does not come as a result.

JOURNALIST:

You've talked about the importance of the Pacific and regional [indistinct] - I know it's very important to you. There has been this flurry of diplomatic activity - the Foreign Minister visiting the Pacific, you're here now in Southeast Asia. Is Australia trying to sort of secure influence in the region in the face of Beijing's rise of influence in the region?

RICHARD MARLES:

I think we're doing what Australia should do, what we should always have done. The Pacific, you're right, is a really important part of the world for Australia. The countries of the Pacific have many challenges. There's a lot of development challenges in those countries, and Australia can play such a positive role in improving the lives of the people in the Pacific. And it's such a wonderful and important part of the world where really Australia does have a unique role to play. And I've long felt, and we believe as a government, that if we go out into the Pacific Island countries, do the work, place their interest at the centre of our engagement, then the rest takes care of itself. We will become the natural partner of choice for the countries of the Pacific. That's actually what any Australian Government should do in any circumstances. And it's fantastic that we've seen Foreign Minister Wong out there so quickly. As she was sworn in on a Monday, she was in Fiji on a Thursday. That says something about the priority we're going to place on the Pacific. And I also want to say, we want to revitalise our relationships with Southeast Asia as well. ASEAN is completely central to Australia's security interests. It's central to our economic interests, and you'll see a focus on this region as well.

JOURNALIST:

Do you have particular concerns? I know that it has been mentioned a few times about the incident with the Chinese fighter jet intercepting Australian surveillance plane, and also in Lloyd Austin's speech, he did also talk about the targeting of a RAAF surveillance plane from a Chinese Navy ship. Do you have particular concern that Beijing is targeting Australia?

RICHARD MARLES:

Well, our fundamental concerns here are that when countries are exercising their rights, engaging in routine activities, which we've been doing for decades, that that can occur in a manner which is safe. And that the way in which countries interact with each other is done in a way which is safe. And that's the point that we've made. Freedom of navigation within the South China Sea - and that includes freedom of airspace, where people have the right to engage under international law, which is what Australia was doing - this is really important in terms of the rules-based order which exists in East Asia and in fact around the world. It's important in terms of the free movement of trade and people, and that's so fundamental to Australia's national interest. We'll continue to engage in those activities going forward. We're obviously not going to be deterred by what's occurred in respect of that, because asserting freedom of navigation, asserting the global rules based order in this area is really critical to our national interest.

JOURNALIST:

A lot has been said over the course of the summer about Taiwan. What do you have to say on that matter?

RICHARD MARLES:

Well, firstly, we don't support Taiwanese independence. We have a one-China policy, and that's been a bilateral, bipartisan policy in Australia for many decades now. And none of that changes. We don't want to see any unilateral moves on either side of the Taiwan Strait in terms of the existing status quo. And the resolution of the situation between Taiwan and China should happen in a way where that is done mutually and by agreement. That's fundamentally the status quo, and that's the position, the bipartisan position, that we've held in relation to Taiwan for many decades now.

JOURNALIST:

This with regards to Australia's sort of defence arrangements within the region, thinking of countries like Indonesia, Australia's near neighbour. There has been sort of some suspicion over these defence arrangements. And, of course, many countries in the region have a different way of looking at China's rising power. How does Australia navigate those differences?

RICHARD MARLES:

Well, we want to build our security relationships with the countries of Asia. That includes Indonesia, where there's actually a very strong military and military relationship between our military and Indonesia. In many ways, it's the heart of the broader bilateral relationship between Australia and Indonesia. We see that as a really good place to start. We obviously want to build a much bigger economic relationship between ourselves and Indonesia. Here in Singapore, we've got a unique security relationship with Singapore, where we assist in the training of the forces of Singapore. It's a unique relationship. We will continue to build our security relationships with the countries of ASEAN, with ASEAN itself, understanding ASEAN centrality, working with the ASEAN Defence Ministers Meeting Plus, seeing that as the preeminent means of defence and security architecture within Southeast Asia. We'll continue to build our relationship with countries like Japan and Korea. And AUKUS. There have been lots of questions about AUKUS. AUKUS is not a security alliance. What AUKUS is, is a sharing of technology between Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States. And first and foremost, in a way which enables Australia to acquire its next generation of submarines, which will be nuclear powered.

JOURNALIST:

And just finally, being mindful of your time, you also mentioned in your speech that about the importance of being respectful with countries even where there is a complex relationship. Do you think that's something that perhaps previous governments have not adequately done? And how does Australia have that respectful relationship when there are these big matters of difference?

RICHARD MARLES:

Well, in fact, the big matters of difference is what drives the need for respect. When matters are complex, it's when dialogue is most important. That's where diplomacy comes into its own. And we are really big believers in diplomacy. And going forward, that's the way in which we intend to engage with the world - professionally, in a sober way, in a respectful way, understanding the importance of dialogue and diplomacy. And that very much includes the way in which we will relate to China as well. When relationships are complex, when there are a lot of issues to work through, that's the moment where dialogue matters the most. And so we see very much the importance of that.

JOURNALIST:

Final question, just on the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Any comment?

RICHARD MARLES:

Well, obviously, we completely condemn the actions of Russia during the course of this year. Everything that I've said about the importance of a global rules-based order is being challenged by Russia's appalling conduct in crossing the border of a sovereign state and really seeking to build relationships on the basis of force, which is absolutely not what should be happening in 2022. I would also observe, though, that the resistance that has been shown by the Ukrainian people has been nothing short of inspiring. We heard an address from President Zelenskyy yesterday and I really think that he, along with the Ukrainian people, have been just amazing in the way in which they have stood steadfastly in the face of Russian aggression. And really they're a beacon for the world and they provide inspiration for the world. It is really important that we stand with Ukraine. It's a long way from Australia but it's really important that we stand with Ukraine because the principles that are at stake there are actually principles which have application around the world. Respecting the rules-based order is absolutely fundamental everywhere.

JOURNALIST:

Would you say the same is that about the people of Myanmar who have been fighting a military dictatorship and quite consistently for more than a year now?

RICHARD MARLES:

Yeah, we're very concerned about the situation in Myanmar. And we want to see a return to democracy in Myanmar. Myanmar was on a much better course a few years ago and it's really important that we see Myanmar get back to the democratic path. We're very concerned about developments in Myanmar over the last period.

END