Interview with Peter Stefanovic, First Edition, Sky News

PETER STEFANOVIC:

Joining us live now is the Defence Minister Peter Dutton. Minister, good morning to you. Thank you for your time. Boris Johnson says these are the actions of a bloodstained dictator this morning. What's your take on events so far?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Pete, as we've seen this tragic circumstance unfold, we're only seeing the opening hours of a conflict that will go on for some time so the human cost will continue to rack up and that is on President Putin. I endorse the words of Prime Minister Johnson, I think it's an appalling act and the world stands as one to condemn the actions of President Putin, except for the Chinese Government tragically.

This alliance that China and Russia have entered into should be deeply disturbing to the rest of the world. I mean really there's one person now, there's one world leader that’s standing out from the rest who are condemning President Putin and that is President Xi, and President Xi has the power and the relationship with President Putin to pick up the phone and to instruct him to pull back and to reconsider what is a dreadful, dreadful decision.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

Will you send any more military assistance to Ukraine?

PETER DUTTON:

We'll work with partners and look at any requests that are made. We've been in contact with partners obviously in the recent days and weeks and we've looked at different options as to what we can provide.

There will of course be a very significant humanitarian element to this. It will unfold as people exit and go across the border into Poland and elsewhere. There will be the medical response that's required, the support from the UNHCR, from Red Cross, IOM, other organisations.

So I think there'll be various ways in which Australia could consider providing support and at the moment though we're determined to make sure that the world stands as one to condemn the actions and see President Putin withdraw as quickly as possible.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

What about any kind of military hardware, weapons, protective equipment, is there anything of that nature that's more available?

PETER DUTTON:

No, we're not considering that at the moment. I think the time to train people up on equipment has obviously passed.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

Right.

PETER DUTTON:

And the decision we've taken not to put troops on the ground in the Ukraine obviously stands and we've been very consistent in relation to that decision from day one.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

Okay. We've seen sanctions toughened from the US, from the UK overnight. Will Australia have to toughen our sanctions further?

PETER DUTTON:

Well we've already made significant announcements and you'll see more; the Prime Minister's determined to make sure that we work as closely as possible with our allies. We're doing that and we're in lock step with them and with many other countries beyond our traditional allies in terms of those sanctions and making sure that President Putin and those surrounding him know that there's a very significant, at least economic price to pay.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

I don't know if we can, but can Australia pause Russia from accessing the SWIFT payment system? Is there potential around there as well?

PETER DUTTON:

I've heard that suggestion made, and no doubt people will be looking at that option and maybe there are other significant steps that can be taken. I notice that President Biden has made some comments only a few minutes ago.

So think you will see an escalation in the world's response and the way in which we impose those sanctions and looking at ways in which they can be, you know, meaningful and that there is a significant price that's being paid that makes President Putin think twice about what he's doing.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

Should we stop buying Russian oil and gas?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Pete, we should work with the world community, and we should impose sanctions that are going to inflict pain on Putin's administration. That's what we should do.

Generally the idea of imposing these sanctions is that they don't cause grief for, you know, the country imposing the sanctions. It's against the dictator, against the autocrat and the world really has stepped up.

More obviously needs to be done and will be done by countries like Australia, but as I say, there's one country in the world that hasn't condemned President Putin and that is China and there's a great burden on China at the moment, on the Chinese Government to step up and to exert pressure on President Putin.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

I will ask you about Xi in a second, but just back to Putin. What's your intelligence suggesting about his plans beyond Ukraine if he is left unchecked? Do you believe that he would move towards other countries as well?

PETER DUTTON:

It's not my assessment that he would have an incursion into a NATO country, for example, because that's a very different fight for him than what he's going to experience in the Ukraine where there will be some civil resistance, there will be some movement, some other ground movements and there will be some urban conflict and he would have factored all of that in. But we don't assess that he's planning on moving further than that. But he's unpredictable and he's a brutal person and we should watch very closely what his next steps will be.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

Is it a foregone conclusion that he's got Ukraine now, Minister?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Pete, it's hard to see any other outcome when you see the pace at which he's able to move, the scale of the troops and the assets that he has at his disposal, relative to the Ukraine. It's not a fair fight and that's why he's in that fight. That's what bullies do. They enter into fights with people that they know they can beat.

We just want to make sure, frankly, that the world just doesn't move on. The news cycle is so quick, there is so much going on around the world that sometimes, you know, we get interested in these stories for a few days and then the world moves on. Well, we need to continue to report the human tragedy, the women and children who are the real victims and those bloody images will come out and President Putin should answer for every single one of them.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

Just on to Xi Jinping now. Do you think he's emboldened by what's going on?

PETER DUTTON:

My assessment is that the Chinese Government will be watching very closely the world's reaction to President Putin, whether there is a significant and tangible price that Russia's going to have to pay for this invasion into Ukraine, and they will be sucking up all of that intelligence, all of that information, and that will allow them to factor that into their own decisions as to what they want to do with Taiwan or elsewhere in the years ahead.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

Do you fear now that he is more interested in Taiwan than he already is, but perhaps he sees a weakened West, as Putin has seen, and now is the right time to go for Taiwan? Is that possible?

PETER DUTTON:

That may be in his calculation. I suppose we have to watch that very closely and gain, the world needs to stand united and to make sure that that doesn't happen because it would be a catastrophic consequence –not just for the people in a law‑abiding society like Taiwan – but the domino effect within our region is quite significant. It would be catastrophic and this alliance between China and Russia really should be an alarm bell for the world and we need to stand united and the West needs to be as strong as we have been since at least the Cold War.

PETER STEFANOVIC:

Okay, that's the Defence Minister Peter Dutton speaking to us live. Minister, I know you've got a busy morning so I appreciate your time with us. Thank you, we'll talk to you soon.

PETER DUTTON:

Thanks Pete.

[ends]