Interview with Karl Stefanovic, Today Show, Channel Nine

KARL STEFANOVIC:

It’s day one of Parliament for 2022 and the texting saga is continuing to plague Scott Morrison. We’re joined now by Defence Minister Peter Dutton in Canberra. Good morning to you Pete. Much going on?

PETER DUTTON:

Karl, pretty quiet here. What about your end?

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Quiet on the Western Front. Look, Bob Carr has doubled down on his claims that you were the Minister behind the leak. He’s doubled down. Was it you? 

PETER DUTTON:

It was not me. I mean every family’s got sort of this crazy uncle that wakes up from the rocking chair and sort of, in a startled way, shouts out something. I just don’t know what is going on with Bob Carr. I mean is he the full quid or not? He’s a bizarre guy. I mean he hasn’t produced any evidence. He’s now saying if it’s not me, then the person needs to come forward to prove my innocence. I just find it bizarre.

But anyway, I think he’s discredited himself. He hasn’t produced any evidence; and you can’t just make a claim and then, you know, back away from it – but that’s what he’s done – and I think it's embarrassing for him. I think most journalists, frankly, have treated him as a bit of a joke. This sort of relevance deprivation syndrome cuts in for a lot of former politicians, as we’ve discussed on the show before, Karl.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Will you take legal action then? You can’t get something more wrong or damaging, right?

PETER DUTTON:

Look, in the end, I just don’t want to give him publicity. I’ve asked him to take it down. He hasn’t yet taken the post down. That’s a decision he’s making and then I’ll make a decision after that. But I obviously reserve my right and see what he does. I mean the onus is on him. He’s made a statement. He’s made a claim, which is, you know, clearly defamatory and he now needs to produce the evidence – which he can’t of course because I never sent that text – it’s a farce. But anyway, that’s a decision for him.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Okay. So if he doesn’t take it down you’ll sue him?

PETER DUTTON:

Well, let’s see what happens. I think he should take it down and hopefully sooner than later.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Okay. Will you challenge for the leadership? That’s what they’re trying to smoke you out for?

PETER DUTTON:

No. No, Karl. No. I mean again – I mean, you’re my vintage, right; so you remember The Comedy Company. Old Uncle Arthur – I mean that is Bob Carr. Uncle Bob is running around in some sort of deluded state. He’s making these suggestions, so I wouldn’t give him any credit. That’s my sense. Am I giving away my age?

KARL STEFANOVIC:

He wasn’t my personal favourite, Uncle Arthur. A little bit too much to drink, you know, all of that. All right, there are some serious…

PETER DUTTON:

Correct. And normally – look, normally these late-night texts – normally these late-night texts, Karl, are accompanied by significant alcohol consumption, but normally when people sober up in the morning they either take them down or retract them. But anyway. Let’s see what happens.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

PETER DUTTON:

Me neither.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

All right. Was the – was the Barnaby leak – do you concede the Barnaby leak was damaging for the PM at a time when he just can’t get clear air?

PETER DUTTON:

Look, it’s scrappy at the moment, there’s no question about that, and I’m not going to lie about it, but I think once we get into a campaign, you know, people don’t give a, you know, toss really about any of this.

People are worried about getting their kids back to school. They’re worried about, you know, whether their grandmother’s going to be okay. If they’ve got a small business, they’re worried about whether they’re going to keep the doors open. People are worried about interest rate increases. People are worried about China and what they’re doing.

So once you get into a two-horse race in the campaign, I think the focus will sharpen on Anthony Albanese and it will sharpen on the Prime Minister, and in that two-horse race I think we can win and convincingly. And frankly, if you’re going to go into tough economic times or we’re going to have great uncertainty around national security, not just in our country, but our region, then you want the Liberal-Nationals in charge. We’ve proven that before. And I think that’s ultimately the decision that the public will make.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Any more leaks coming? I’m not sure you can afford them?

PETER DUTTON:

Well I hope not. But look, you know, all of us are human and I know you and Ally don’t do this, but there are work places where people send texts where they’re pretty frank with their mates or over a beer, you know, they let their guard down – that’s human nature – and politicians are no different to anyone else. We make mistakes and people have a greater glare on it because you’re in the public eye. That’s the reality. But I think most people just want us to get things sorted out.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Get on with the job.

PETER DUTTON:

We’ve done pretty well compared to the rest of the world on Covid, and get on with it.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Okay. ADF troops are now being sent into help with the ongoing crisis in the aged care homes. Why did it take so long Pete?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Karl, as we discussed the other day, I mean there’s been planning already in place. We put Defence personnel in on the weekend. We’d already paid for in an arrangement with the private hospitals, 80,000 shifts. As Professor Brendan Murphy was saying yesterday, there are a lot of people who die in any year sadly – we’ve had grandparents and aunts and other loved ones who have gone through this – but in aged care each year there are about a thousand people a week who die. That number hasn’t increased over the course of Covid. Any one death, of course, is terrible, but a thousand is about the average each week. That’s the reality with terminal diseases and cancers and dementia and other things as people get older.

The difficulty in aged care is that, you know, some families, particularly if they’ve got a loved one in palliative care, they don’t want them to get the booster; that person contracts the virus and so they’re dying with Covid, not from Covid in many instances.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Apologies for interrupting.

PETER DUTTON:

Sure Karl.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

But the problem is that we had last week just in Queensland where we had one staff member looking after 130 residents. So just doing the math on this, there are 1100 facilities. You’re going to send 1700 personnel in. Two hundred facilities alone in Queensland. It’s just not going to cut the mustard, is it?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Karl, we’ll do more if required, right?

KARL STEFANOVIC:

Yeah.

PETER DUTTON:

I mean the Prime Minister’s been very clear about us making sure that people are treated, you know, with dignity. I mean every Australian wants that for anyone who’s in aged care. And that sort of staff ratio, or that example is completely unacceptable. But you are also talking, though, not about every aged care facility. There are some who are running excellent management programs, they’ve got agency staff in, there are others where the virus has spread and that’s going to require additional assistance and that assistance is being provided by Aspen and other providers that have been contracted by the Department of Health and Aged Care, but also it’s now going to be supplemented by the Defence force personnel.

If we need more we will do more, but we’ve sent planners in to stabilise the situation. The Australian Defence Force is known for many things, but principally I think their ability to organise, to get things sorted out and to make sure that we can treat people with dignity and that’s exactly what we’re on a path to do and, I’m very proud of the work that they do.

KARL STEFANOVIC:

I think it’s great they’re going in. Thanks for your time, Pete.

Appreciate it.

[ends]