Interview with Leigh Sales, 7.30, ABC

LEIGH SALES:

The Defence Minister Peter Dutton is with me now from Canberra. Thanks Minister for coming in.

PETER DUTTON:

A pleasure Leigh. Thank you.

LEIGH SALES:

Regarding what we just aired, around a decade ago there were a spate of stories and inquiries into that kind of behaviour and the public was assured that the military had cleaned it up. Does that story suggest that that, in fact, is not the case?

PETER DUTTON:

Well, it’s obviously very disturbing. That’s the first point. And I feel for Alister, for his family, in particular for his mum and no doubt his mates who are deeply affected by what they’ve seen and by what he’s experienced.

It’s appropriate, absolutely proper, that Defence has reported this now to the Victorian Police and they’ll do their own internal investigation and obviously as was detailed by Alister’s solicitor there, there’ll be a civil action that’s initiated. So those processes are underway and the courts will now deal with that.

LEIGH SALES:

It used to be cultural issue, though, in the military. How confident are you that it is not a cultural and systemic issue now?

PETER DUTTON:

Well Leigh, I mean the first point to make is that, you know, we’re dealing with a workforce of tens of thousands, and you’ve got over the course of that 10-year period no doubt in excess of a hundred thousand people that would come through Defence, or close to that, being employed both in regular and reserves and within the Department at any one time.

So can I say to you that everybody conducts themselves at an acceptable standard? No. But do 99.9 per cent of people conduct themselves in a way that would make us proud? Absolutely. And in the 0.1 per cent – and this case on the face of it is one of those cases – we will deal with it very harshly and I’ll send this very clear message to anybody within the Australian Defence Force that that behaviour is completely unacceptable.

We have a professional expectation from our people; they deliver it and in the circumstances where they don’t, people can expect to be separated from the Australian Defence Force because they aren’t welcome within the ranks of the ADF.

LEIGH SALES:

Turning to other matters, you recently said that it was inconceivable that Australia would not back the US if there were ever…sorry, back the US if there were ever a war with China over Taiwan. Today the Shadow Foreign Affairs Minister Penny Wong said that remark was amping up national security concerns to help the Coalition win re-election next year. What’s your response to that?

PETER DUTTON:

Penny Wong’s speech today could have been written by Paul Keating – and we saw his outburst at the Press Club only a couple of weeks ago – and it’s only 68 days since Anthony Albanese said that he was in lockstep with the Government on AUKUS, which is the biggest announcement…

LEIGH SALES:

…but what about the substance?

PETER DUTTON:

Well I think when you look at what they’ve said, they’re now starting to crab walk away from commitment to what is the biggest national security plan in recent history. This will guarantee…

LEIGH SALES:

…no, no, but I want you to – sorry to interrupt, Minister. I want you to just address the substance of her remark, which is that the Coalition is using national security to help it win re-election. It does have form on that – 2001, asylum seekers coming by boat and terrorism; 2004, terrorism; 2013, boats again.

PETER DUTTON:

Well Leigh, I mean the boats did start under Labor and they did put kids into detention, let’s be very clear about that. That’s factual.

At the moment I’m not making up the Chinese Communist Party’s approach to Taiwan. They’ve been very clear about their intention, they’ve been clear about time lines, they’ve been clear about reunification, they are ramping up their naval and military assets at an historic level.

We know at the moment they have in their fleet about 355 submarines and ships, and by 2030 – within this decade – that number will go to 460. They’re producing on a tonnage rate, a bigger number of boats and submarines over an 18-month period than what the Royal Navy has in its entire fleet. So if somebody thinks that we’re exaggerating some of the difficulties and the concerns that we have in the Indo-Pacific, I think they’re denying the reality of the situation within our own region.

LEIGH SALES:

But why do you assume, though, that Australia would automatically back the US in a confrontation over Taiwan, given that Australia’s relationship with China is profoundly important to its economic prosperity and Australia’s a sovereign nation?

PETER DUTTON: 

It’s an incredibly important relationship, and I want the relationship with China to normalise as quickly as possible, but the Chinese Government has delivered to Australia a list of 14 requirements for us to meet before that relationship is normalised, including giving up essentially freedom of speech and many of our democratic rights, which we will never do as a sovereign nation.

LEIGH SALES:

But do you really think Australians would have the appetite to follow the US into another war after Iraq and Afghanistan?

PETER DUTTON:

Leigh, I think if you look at what’s happening in the Indo-Pacific at the moment and you see the ramp up by the Communist Party of China, we need to be realistic about the threat now and over the course of the next couple of decades and there’s no sense sticking your head in the sand pretending it’s not happened…not happening.

We want prevailing peace in our region. We have millions of people that have been lifted from poverty since the Second World War, since the Vietnam War, and we want that to continue, but when you look at what’s happening in the South China Sea where China now has a presence in 20 different locations, when you see what’s happening in the East China Sea where they’re bumping up against the Japanese Coastguard, when you see the conflict between India and China on their land border, when you see what is happening in the conflict between Thailand and China at the moment, these are concerning events.

LEIGH SALES:

Okay.

PETER DUTTON:

And I don’t think me being dishonest with the Australian people is in our national interest.

LEIGH SALES:

The Prime Minister’s truthfulness has been in the spotlight recently. Is Scott Morrison telling the truth when he says he’s never told a lie in public life?

PETER DUTTON:

Yes, and I think if people, you know, are throwing around slurs in public life now, which is way too easy with social media – we’re all the subject of all sorts of vicious allegations and complaints – people say things now that I don’t think they would have said a decade or two ago.

LEIGH SALES:

They do…

PETER DUTTON:

If somebody’s got an allegation to make, they should make it.

LEIGH SALES:

They do, but to address the substance, you never felt that you were misled or lied to in the lead-up to the Turnbull leadership spill which you contested and he then won?

PETER DUTTON:

No I didn’t and I can say from my own perspective and it’s been my experience with Scott Morrison as well that, you know, we’ve conducted ourselves in an honourable way and if people have an allegation to make to the contrary, they should detail it instead of putting some innuendo out there which is not backed up by any fact and it’s done solely to smear the Prime Minister, which is what the Premiers are doing in concert with Anthony Albanese at the moment, and it should be called out.

LEIGH SALES:

Is Scott Morrison attempting to court the anti-vax votes with his comments about people being sick of being told what to do by governments?

PETER DUTTON:

No he’s not Leigh, and I mean I’ve watched this very closely and I’ve been on the National Security Committee that’s dealt with COVID since day one. We’ve made some tough decisions over the course of the last two years in terms of borders, in terms of making ventilators, masks, dealing with product lines running out in shopping centres and dealing with the lockdown, the rollout of the vaccine that people have been critical of; but I’ll tell you now – when I speak to my friends in Europe or the United States or Asia, Australia is in an incredibly fortunate position because of the decisions that we have made and I think if we’re looking to the future now, we want to make sure that we can get the economy right so that people can get back into jobs, that those small businesses can regenerate again. If we do that, that gives our country the best chance of the best recovery in the world, which I think is what people are now seeking.

LEIGH SALES:

Peter Dutton, thanks for your time tonight.

PETER DUTTON:

Thanks Leigh.

[ends]