Transcript- Sky News Interview with Kieran Gilbert

KIERAN GILBERT:

With me now, the Defence Minister Marise Payne.

Minister, thanks so much for your time. A lot to talk about, including we saw the major Sea Power Conference in Sydney this week, and one of the lingering concerns around the massive submarine project, the $50 billion project, is that it could be outpaced by our regional rivals by the time they come online. Is that a concern for you and Defence planners, that the whole project could be redundant by the time we get them?

MARISE PAYNE:               

So Kieran, we are obviously working very closely with the Navy, with Naval Group itself in terms of the design, but we know that by 2035, 50 per cent of the world's submarines - many of which are similarly in development - will be operating in our region. We are acutely aware of the need for us to have a regionally superior submarine. So when the competitive evaluation process was commenced under the Government in 2014-15, that was a competitive evaluation process which involved Japan, Germany and France in particular. Ultimately the Government made the decision that the best fit for our capability, the best fit for our requirements, was the French submarine based on the Shortfin Barracuda, and that is the plan to which we are working now under the Future Submarine program. I must say, at PACIFIC 2017 I went to a broad industry briefing that Naval Group, Lockheed Martin and the Capability Acquisition and Sustainment Group of Defence was hosting there on Wednesday afternoon. The room was absolutely packed. Small to medium enterprise representatives from across Australia, academic institutions, all engaged and interested in how they can participate in what we are seeing as a national enterprise, combined with our surface ship build as well.

KIERAN GILBERT:             

Yeah, it might have industry interested. An industry program, it has merit I guess in that sense, but in terms of a defence asset, is there a risk here that the whole thing becomes obsolete? There's some analysis that submarines themselves are on the way out because the stealth capacity is being overwhelmed by the ability to monitor them, to target them.

MARISE PAYNE:               

I did see a report from an academic on that matter, or a reference to that, but as I've said, there are going to be very significant submarine fleets operating in our region by 2035. It would be foolhardy in the extreme for Australia not to be taking that seriously and ensuring that we have the capability to address our own national security in that regard, and that is what the Government is absolutely focussed on doing.

KIERAN GILBERT:             

In terms of the approach though, off-the-shelf versus building them, is the fundamental problem here that we're trying to obtain the benefits of a nuclear-powered submarine without having the nuclear power component? Is that the fundamental problem here?

MARISE PAYNE:               

Well, I don't regard that as a problem, fundamental or otherwise, because that's not actually the issue. The issue is that we will obtain a conventionally powered submarine, that it will be designed for Australia's purposes and Australia's operational requirements to suit the areas in which we operate - very, very different from, for example, those submarines that operate in the Baltic Sea regularly, that operate in north Asia regularly. Our submarines operate in quite different areas. We will obtain a submarine that suits our operational requirements, that meets our capability needs, that is regionally superior and that provides, at the very least, the stealth and the range characteristics that the Collins Class submarine currently has, and preferably exceeds those. So we're in that design phase now. We're working between Navy, the Future Submarine program, and the Naval Group to ensure that that is the capability we achieve.

KIERAN GILBERT:             

A former rear admiral, James Goldrick, yesterday made the point that he believes Australia should reposition, reemphasise our region and redeploy those assets currently in the Middle East to our Western Pacific and Southeast Asian region and end the Middle East deployments. What's your response to that analysis?

MARISE PAYNE:               

So I've known James Goldrick for a very long time and have enormous respect for his perspective, and he makes some extremely interesting points, but the thing that I think we need to bear in mind as well is our current level of activity in the Pacific, in the Indo-Pacific: we have a joint task group currently deployed, led by HMAS Adelaide with a number of frigates and a supply ship in company with her, which is part of our engagement in our region across a wide range of countries from Korea to Japan, the Federated States of Micronesia to Timor-Leste, India, Cambodia, Brunei, the Philippines. It is spending three months throughout the region working with those countries, a very significant indicator of our engagement here. HMAS Choules and minehunter HMAS Huon are currently in Vanuatu for example, assisting with the humanitarian assistance in relation to the potential volcanic eruption and the evacuation on Ambae. That is part of our business as usual, and it is an extremely significant engagement. We are very, very busy, but doesn't however mean that we can't also continue our focus on the combined maritime forces in the Middle East, of which we have been a part, as James Goldrick says, for some time.

And if I could just make the observation about the ships that are on post in the Middle East; the frigate that we have there now as part of the Combined Maritime Forces is our 64th rotation. We have, through the work of ships like HMAS Arunta and Newcastle, seized over tens of thousands of kilos of drugs which is a key to stopping the financing of terrorist activity. That is one of our absolute focuses in our participation in the Coalition.

KIERAN GILBERT:             

In the context of this debate that Rear Admiral Goldrick has started in terms of the deployment of our naval assets, in that context, how do you see as the Defence Minister the role of the ADF in 2017, more broadly in a strategic sense?

MARISE PAYNE:               

So I think that's a really interesting question, and we set that out in our Defence White Paper; where we set out Australia's key strategic defence interests and strategic defence objectives, which include, obviously first and foremost, the protection of Australia and our national interests; also, our projection into the region, our support for Papua New Guinea, Timor-Leste, and our support in the Pacific; but also our engagement with Coalition actions where they are reflective of Australia's priorities and Australia's concerns. So the two activities which I have just described absolutely reflect those strategic defence interests and strategic defence objectives to the nth degree. In fact, they absolutely reflect those priorities.

KIERAN GILBERT:             

You're a member of the National Security Committee, of Cabinet, and I guess very much aware of the Government's counter-terror operations. It's very interesting, in the context of the week that we've had, that tech giant Apple - it's been reported - has been requested to comply with hundreds of requests from law enforcement officials, but handed over nothing to them or barely anything of worth. What do you say in response to this? Is there any way the company can be brought into line, in a sense?

MARISE PAYNE:               

So I have seen that report, and it obviously is a subject of discussion, not just for the National Security Committee here in Australia, but also indeed for the most recent meeting of the G20 which resolved to pursue these issues in a formal sense from their perspective, indeed, observing not unreasonably that the rule of law applies as much online as it does anywhere else. I understand from the Attorney-General that Australia is intending to introduce legislation before the end of this year to address these concerns with the tech giants, as it were, concerns which we see as ensuring that just because activity is held online does not mean we should be providing a safe haven for people who may be involved in criminal activity, whether it is in the context of child abuse - which is referred to today - or, quite frankly, terrorism.

KIERAN GILBERT:             

Yeah, and finally, I need to ask you; leading moderate in the Cabinet and a long-time supporter of legalising same-sex marriage, what have you made of the debate, how it's unfolding at the moment, and are you encouraged by the turnout?

MARISE PAYNE:               

Well I think that the turnout for a voluntary postal survey is very interesting. It does indicate a significant level of engagement. I have voted; I've voted yes, I've put it in the mailbox, and I've made sure that my survey result is on the way. I encourage all Australians who want to participate in the survey to dispatch that postal survey. It is an opportunity to have their say. I hope that the result is a positive one, and I look forward to us trying to ensure, as far as we possibly can, that this is a civilised and courteous debate. People have different views on different sides, I have friends with different views on different sides, colleagues with different views on different sides, and I think as a country we are mature enough to do that.

KIERAN GILBERT:             

It has been achieved, do you think, largely? We've seen some ugly incidents, whether it be online or in person as well, in terms of physical violence at times.

MARISE PAYNE:               

It has had its unfortunate moments, that's fair to say, and the social media environment is beyond robust on some of these things. It reverses from robust to abusive, quite frankly, but that is the environment in which we work. Nobody's immune from that, and you have to be fairly resilient to deal with it.

KIERAN GILBERT:             

Defence Minister, appreciate your time. Talk to you soon.

MARISE PAYNE:               

Thanks very much Kieran.