Minister for Defence - Interview on ABC Radio National Breakfast with Patricia Karvelas

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

As we heard on AM, the Australian Government is in firing line in Beijing. China’s Foreign Ministry has told Australia to stay out of the South China Sea. It says it was shocked by Foreign Minister Julie Bishops assertion that the UN court ruling on the South China Sea territorial dispute was legally binding and that Australia would threaten bilateral relations if it continued with freedom of navigation exercises in the South China Sea. There’s no doubt that regional tensions are ramping up. Joining us now is the Defence Minister Marise Payne. Good morning, Minister.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Good morning, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

How do you respond to this reaction from Beijing?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well I think the first thing that I would say is that the Foreign Minister, the Prime Minister, and I have made comments that are completely consistent with our historical position. We have said all along that we looked forward to the ruling of the tribunal. Now that we have that ruling, we call on the parties who are involved in that particular negotiation to abide by it. We regard it as final and as binding. We have also consistently called on all claimants in the South China Sea and on South China Sea matters, to operate in accordance with international law.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Julie Bishop says Australia will continue freedom of navigation exercises in the South China Sea; are we likely to see Australian planes and ships in the area in coming days or weeks?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well we don’t comment on future activities of the ADF publically, as you can understand, but we have consistently said that we support our own rights and the rights of other parties to operate in accordance with international law with respect to freedom of navigation and freedom of overflight. Of course, the position we take is that- we’ll demonstrate our own commitment to those aspects in a manner of our own choosing and in a manner that serves both Australian and our regional interests. The South China Sea area, as you know and as your listeners know, is extremely important to Australia and to the region; important to us in terms of the movement of trade in particular. And the tribunal ruling provides us with a very clear decision in accordance with the law of the sea, about maritime rights in that area and as such we advocate and call for an observation of that ruling.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Well Beijing says it’s shocked by Julie Bishops assertion that the UN court ruling on the South China Sea territorial dispute was legally binding. Is it legally binding and what is your message to Beijing that has expressed this shock?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well my message is the same as the Foreign Ministers which is that the tribunal itself, in the arbitration case was one which was established in accordance to the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. It is a decision that is about that convention and what it does is gives countries a clear framework on how we lawfully use our oceans. In that way we’ve supported the rights of the countries, the Philippines in this case, to use the tribunal process to seek to resolve the dispute it has peacefully in accordance to international law. So across the region and more broadly, the overwhelming majority of observers regard the results of the tribunal as legal and as binding, as does Australia. And we have consistently said, and our position is no different, no different yesterday and today than it was some months ago as the tribunal process has proceeded. So what the Foreign Minister had said, and what I am saying is in fact no surprise to the Chinese Government – it is our consistent position.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Earlier this week, Shadow Defence Minister Stephen Conroy had this to say on RN Breakfast:

STEPHEN CONROY:

“Australia should be prepared to demonstrate support for the international rules-based system and if Australia does not then others will take that as a signal that they- Australia aren’t willing to support the ruling of the international laws based system.”

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

The Government accused Senator Conroy of urging an escalation of tensions but was he suggesting anything more than the Government now says that it will do?

MINISTER PAYNE:

The Government has consistently said that we support freedom of navigation, we support freedom of overflight in accordance to international law. But what we are very clear about in relation to this decision is that we should be taking the opportunity of the tribunal ruling to engage in a greater dialogue that is based on a clear statement of maritime rights. This is a time to be easing tensions, a time for reframing from provocative actions or provocative statements that could escalate any tensions and uncertainty in the region. So to that extent I think that we can be far more strategic, far more constructive, and far more sensible in our suggestions and our commentary than perhaps what Senator Conroy has been on this occasion.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Senator Conroy says that the Government is being misleading by claiming to conduct freedom of navigation and overflight operations in the South China Sea. He points to these exchanges with Chief of Defence Force, Mark Binskin, in Senate Estimates in February:

SENATOR CONROY:

“Now, does the Australian Defence Force conduct deliberate freedom of navigation and overflight activities as part of Operation Gateway?”

MARK BINSKIN:

“No. As we said, we continue to operate in accordance to international law.”

SENATOR CONROY:

“Have any of our ships transiting through the area conducted deliberate freedom of navigation activities on the South China Sea? I suspect the answer is no to our earlier conversation.”

MARK BINSKIN:

“If your definition of freedom of navigation is inside territorial waters, the answer is no.”

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

So was Julie Bishop correct when she said in a press conference with the Prime Minister on Wednesday that the Australian Defence Force will continue the international rights of freedom of navigation and freedom of overflight as we have done in the past?

MINISTER PAYNE:

Absolutely correct and I…

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

…but how does that correlate with that answer?

MINISTER PAYNE:

I was sitting beside the Chief of Defence Force in that discussion and listening to Senator Conroy and for students of the Estimate’s Hansard, Senator Conroy and I also engaged in a lengthy discussion on these matters. Patricia, we are very clear about our position on these issues. We will demonstrate our commitment to freedom of navigation or freedom of overflight – whatever it might be – in a manner of our own choosing that serves Australia’s and the regional interests. You would expect that to be the case, we are completely consistent in that regard and the Government is very careful in making these statements to ensure that we are advocating our own operation in accordance to international law as well.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

If you’re just tuning in to RN Breakfast, my Minister- the Minister that I’m speaking to is the Defence Minister- not my actually specific Minister, you’re the nation’s Minister, Marise Payne.

MARISE PAYNE:

Well yes, for the moment.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

How would Australia respond if the US asked it to conduct a freedom of navigation operation.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well we have supported the US’s activities in the past as we do with any of our fellow nations who want to operate in accordance to international law. Our discussions with our partners and allies are ongoing. I’m not going to make commentary on hypothetical suggestions in a discussion like this, Patricia. But the most important thing is that, as we have seen what is an extremely detailed, comprehensive decision by the tribunal, we take that final decision, that we seek to encourage the parties to that to abide by it and that we seek to encourage all of the parties in the region to re-engage in the dialogue that is constructive, that eases tensions, and that doesn’t pursue provocative actions that could escalate any tensions or uncertainty in the region.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Minister, you’re obviously a Senator but I want to take you to the Lower House for a moment because I want to know what Australia’s first female Defence Minister thinks about this: women will make up just 17 per cent of all MPs in this Government, that is the lowest it’s been for 23 years. I find that staggering, 23 years the lowest level. Is it time for the Coalition to look beyond aspirational targets, enforced quotas, get much more active on addressing this issue because that is an astonishing low number.

MINISTER PAYNE:

In answer to your question, I would agree with at least two or your three propositions there but I don’t support the position of quotas within the Liberal Party – and that’s the only Party for which I can speak. But quite frankly, we have not done well enough and I and a number of my colleagues have been grappling with some of these issues in the last term of the Government. I would hope that in the new term with my Ministerial and with other colleagues- female colleagues from the Parliamentary Party. Both the Lower House and the Senate, I might say, that we will be able to work very, very closely with the organisation, with the Prime Minister, to make sure that this situation changes. You’re right, it’s not good enough.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

But how else do you ensure that women get pre-selected as candidates in winnable seats? Because whatever strategy you’re using, it’s clearly failing.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Well you presume that there is in fact a strategy that is related to that and quite frankly, I don’t think that if there is a strategy – and I’ve not been part of the organisational side of Liberal Party politics for a long time obviously given my other roles – but if there is a strategy, it’s clearly not working. So we need to change that. We need to make sure that we are identifying strong female candidates early. We need to make sure that we are encouraging them in the positives of political life, because from time to time, the casual observer may think that it didn’t have a lot of rewards – given some of the circumstances that may prevail in Parliament from time to time. But I think we can do much better. I am determined to do that with my colleagues and all I can say is that having lost a number of female colleagues in this last election, I think I owe it to them. In fact, we owe it to them to make sure that we do a better job. Before 1996, when John Howard was elected in 1996, I’m sure many of Australians will remember the influx of women in Federal Parliament, particularly in the Liberal-National Parties but on both sides. We’ve done it before, we can do it again and we will.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Before I let you go; your Party Room Meeting is on Monday and there is a huge push to dump or replace parts of your superannuation policy. Eric Abetz was on this program yesterday making that case. Do you think that policy should be altered and did it cost you votes?

MINISTER PAYNE:

I think the policy is a very important one in relation to the operation of the Budget which was considered through the normal budgetary processes. And the Treasurer has said in recent days, quite clearly that those processes in which were not finalised because of the timing of the election of course will now have a chance to play out. We have a number of mechanisms within the Party Room and its attendant Committees which enables members of the Party to take advantage of commentary, to take advantage of debate and engage in our system. I’ve used those in the past, myself, when I’ve been a backbencher and when I’ve been contributing to those debates. So I think they are still ahead of us and I look forward to participating in those and hearing their outcomes where appropriate. These are very, very difficult budgetary times, we've been quite clear about that. It wasn't us who was putting spending on a spend-o-meter, it was the Opposition who was doing that, and we were very clear and very careful about the commitments that we made, and I expect us to stick with those commitments.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

Minister Marise Payne, thank you for your time.

MINISTER PAYNE:

Thanks very much, Patricia.

PATRICIA KARVELAS:

That’s the Defence Minister, Marise Payne joining us on RN Breakfast.

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